Rolleiflex wind-on is stiff after last frame.

[stephen_mcateer]

On 3/4/2024 at 4:00 AM, kmac said:

Are you close to the repairer where you got the CLA done ? I'm thinking that maybe you could leave the film in the camera after the last frame is exposed and get the repairer to feel the tension on the winding handle.

I'm also thinking that the repairer, while fixing the "lumpy wind on", something else went amiss during that process, and is causing the tightness in winding handle. Normally, after the last frame, the counter disengages and the winding handle free wheels, I just checked on my C3. Your 3.5F should do the same.

With a film in the camera, and after the last frame, the handle free wheels, but pulls the tail of the backing paper through, with no other mechanism coming into play, no counter, and no resistance from any other mechanism. So it appears that your handle is meeting an abnormal resistance from within the winding mechanism itself, or it could have something to do with the counter, possibly it's not disengaging properly and getting jammed. That is if it's proved that the film is not binding in the film chambers.

Can you remember if there was tension on the handle when no film was in the camera ? Checking this will solve where the problem will be. Without a film in the camera, check the handle tension after 12, (or is it 11). I take it you will have to do this after you finish your current Portra film.

Thanks for those suggestions KMAC.  The repairer is in Liverpool, about 200 miles away, so it's not really practical to drive there. 

You could be right in saying that they might have damaged something while they were repairing the previously 'Lumpy' wind-on. I don't know.

"the handle free wheels, but pulls the tail of the backing paper through, with no other mechanism coming into play," — if that's the case, then there is definitely something amiss here. 

"Can you remember if there was tension on the handle when no film was in the camera" — When the camera is empty, the wind-on lever has almost zero resistance.

"check the handle tension after 12," — Good suggestion. It takes me a while to get through a roll, so might be a couple of weeks before I can try this.

Cheers.

 

[kmac]

4 hours ago, stephen_mcateer said:

"the handle free wheels, but pulls the tail of the backing paper through, with no other mechanism coming into play," — if that's the case, then there is definitely something amiss here. 

Let me explain that in more detail. When you go past the last frame, the handle free wheels in relation to the counter and film indexing mechanism, they disengage because they are not needed for winding the tail of the backing paper through. But, while the handle feels like it is free wheeling, it's still engaged to the winding gears that turn the take-up spool, hence why you can wind the tail through and complete the winding of the roll. And yes, there should be a minimum of resistance at the handle. So those winding gear are in play, contrary to my assertion that "no other mechanisms come into play"

When you finally get to check for tension after "12" without a film in the camera, be reminded that the winding gears will turn via the handle, constantly with the handle being wound, and they should be very easy to turn.

4 hours ago, stephen_mcateer said:

"check the handle tension after 12," — Good suggestion. It takes me a while to get through a roll, so might be a couple of weeks before I can try this.

If there is as much tension on the handle as you described, maybe it would be wise to remove the film in a change bag or a very dark room after you expose No12.

You can of course try the handle sooner if you felt like it. You can remove the film in the dark, roll it up, and replace it after you've tried the handle tension. It's only a matter of remembering the frame you're up to, and wind it back to that frame later. However, if the handle tension is tight without the film, I wouldn't put the film back in, I'd get the camera fixed first, you might do more damage otherwise.

Edited March 7 by kmac
extra clarity

[stephen_mcateer]

On 3/7/2024 at 3:25 PM, kmac said:

Let me explain that in more detail. When you go past the last frame, the handle free wheels in relation to the counter and film indexing mechanism, they disengage because they are not needed for winding the tail of the backing paper through. But, while the handle feels like it is free wheeling, it's still engaged to the winding gears that turn the take-up spool, hence why you can wind the tail through and complete the winding of the roll. And yes, there should be a minimum of resistance at the handle. So those winding gear are in play, contrary to my assertion that "no other mechanisms come into play"

When you finally get to check for tension after "12" without a film in the camera, be reminded that the winding gears will turn via the handle, constantly with the handle being wound, and they should be very easy to turn.

If there is as much tension on the handle as you described, maybe it would be wise to remove the film in a change bag or a very dark room after you expose No12.

You can of course try the handle sooner if you felt like it. You can remove the film in the dark, roll it up, and replace it after you've tried the handle tension. It's only a matter of remembering the frame you're up to, and wind it back to that frame later. However, if the handle tension is tight without the film, I wouldn't put the film back in, I'd get the camera fixed first, you might do more damage otherwise.

@kmac Thanks for those suggestions.

There was an increase in resistance at the wind-on lever with the last film I put through it, which was TRI-X. However it was not anything like as bad as the PORTRA 400 that I put through it when I got it back from the repairer.

I have another roll of PORTRA 400 in it at the moment, so I think I'll wind this one to just beyond the last frame and see what happens. I can also then remove the film in my dark tent and see how it fares without any film in it at that point, as you suggest. (So two tests for the price of one.)

I'll update this thread once I have this information.

Cheers.