Milestone today! First 8X20's. ULF Lens quandary!

[jim_galli4]

<center><img

src=http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/tonopix/820-3.jpg></center><br>

<p>I was overanxious and scanned with the only scanner available which

is my little 2450. No prints yet so I scanned the neg as a

reflective. Anyways give me the benefit of the doubt the neg is

actually fine. I had to sew 2 suckky scans together.

 

The big surprise is that out of 3 lenses I thought I had that would be

very useable for 820, only 1 is and it's iffy! My big 360 Graphic

Kowa which I never gave a second thought to goes to mush an inch in

from the edges! My 420 Repro Claron I kind of knew would do that, and

it does. That leaves the 19 3/4 inch Kodak! Trouble is the table on

my 1931 Gundlach stops at 19". So to use the Kodak lens I had to trip

a release catch and nearly drive the back off of the bed.

 

So what are we using on 8X20. Haven't tried the 355 G-Claron yet.

Only took 3 pictures. Am I looking for a 42cm Dagor? I was really

hoping the 14" lenses would work as I like the wide aspect ratio.

[edward_burlew]

The 355 G Claron will work, I got mine from a guy who used it fo 12x20and his results were great, Hey instead of running the back off the tracks make a spacer for the lense board or an extended board , like reversing a wide angle board so you can comfortably use the longer lense. Have fun!!!!!!

[daniel_blakeslee]

The Fujinon 450 C should work just fine. According to some who have tried it on 12x20 it gets soft in the corners with that format, but should do fine with the less demanding 8x20. It's great on my 7x17.

[steve_gangi2]

Looks good. A G-Claron should cover. I don't know if Kodak made a wide field Ektar that size, but if there is such a thing, that would be another choice. By the way, how did you get the scan to "take"? The few times I tried scanning a negative on my flatbed it looked awful. What did you do to make it work?

[steve_hamley]

Jim,

 

Congratulatons on the milestone, I like the 8x20 format too. I'm also interested in exactly how you used the 2450, in particular what you used to hold the neg.

 

Thanks!

 

Steve

[linas_kudzma1]

My main 8x20 lens is the amazing, tiny and sharp to the edges (contact printing) Fuji 450 f12.5 C. I also have an Agfa 210 305 Super-Intergon (no shutter) that covers without movements. I�m led to believe that the Agfa lens is a repackaged Rodenstock APO-Geragon. I also have a Rodenstock 480 APO Ronar which gives slightly soft corners (about 1 inch) which I lived with before I got the Fuji. A 14" f7.7 Dagor I used to own covered 8x20 with ease.

 

Welcome to 8x20!

[linas_kudzma1]

Oops, cut and paste error. Only the 305 Agfa covers 8x20.

[jim_galli4]

Thanks for the encouragement. A 450 Fujinon would be nice, or perhaps the Nikkor M. I'll try the G-Claron today. That would solve a LOT of problems if it stayed sharp enough out to the edges. <br> Steve and Steve: <i>"The few times I tried scanning a negative on my flatbed it looked awful. What did you do to make it work?"</i><br> That picture DOES look awful. But to answer your question I guess ignorance is bliss, I just laid the neg in there like a long piece of paper and scanned reflective Positive and then flipped and inverted in photoshop. I put the 2 individual scans onto a common background and made adjustments as best I could to make them seamless. Obviously if I'd had time to make a print I could have gotten a much better result. This picture was with the 420 Repro Claron and goes pretty soft in the edges, however I'm still holding out some hope for that lens. I used it at f45 and perhaps at f90 it would firm up acceptably. Circle of illumination is actually quite large.

[kelly_flanigan1]

The Epson 2450 Photo scanner will scan a 4x9" negative; if one makes a custom holder. The scanner needs to see the 1x10cm? slot at the beginning; ie the hinged end of the scanner. The slot normallizes the light; or lets it know there is a negative there. I cut one out of cardboard; and it didnt work until the slot was added. This negatives may droop; make all 4 side supported.

[sandy_king]

A few lenses that will cover 8X20.

 

355 G-Claron -- Covers 12X20 so should allow coverage of 12X20 with some movements.

 

12" Dagor -- Some Dagors of this focal length will cover 12X20 stopped down to f/45 or more. Others will not. In general the very old ones cover more than the modern ones that are mechanically vignetted.

 

14" Dagor -- Should cover 8X20 with a bit of movement. As with the 12" Dagor, older specimens appear to have more coverage than newer ones.

 

16" Dagor -- Should cover with quite a bit of movement.

 

(With all Dagors buy with caution as actual coverage varies a lot. A friend of mine had a 16" Dagor that would not cover 12X20 even though the specifications suggest it should do so with lots of movement. I know this for a fact because I saw it with my own eyes.)

 

450mm Nikkor-M and 450mm Fujinon-C. Both will cover 8X20 but the Nikkor has a much larger circle and will give more movements. In my opinion the 450mm Nikkor-M is a much better buy than the 16" Dagor. You can buy it for about half the price of a Dagor, it covers as much or more, is lighter and comes in a modern Copal #3 shutter, and is multi-coated.

 

Sandy King

[c_p_goerz]

My bag for 8x20 has the following lenses..10 3/4" Series V

Protar(11x14), 14"WA APO Nikkor(rare but WELL worth it), 16 1/2"

Dagor, 19" Series IV Dagor, 19" LD Artar, 24" Red Dot, 24"

Dagor(Berlin), 612mm WF Busch(just got and haven't really

tested it too intensly) and a 760mm APO Nikkor that rarely gets

used.

 

The APO Gerogon is almost identical to the 14"Blue Dot Trigor,

performance is visually identical in every way, do not confuse it

with a standard Gerogon though.

 

12" Dagors on 8x20 I really don't recommend as the corners look

quite a bit softer than the center circle and its annoying to look at.

The shortest Dagor that still can pass muster on 8x20 is a 14" in

my humble opinion but even that has to be used at 64 for best

results on that size.

 

The 355 G Claron is an excellent lens and will get you better

corners on 8x20, that also goes for the 12" GC too. I do have

multiple lenses of the same focal length as you may have

noticed but I do shoot details of old gravestones and similar

objects and the Dagor doesn't do too well close up, thats not true

for the Process Dagor which the series IV is but the image isn't

as edgy and sometimes I like that in certain pics.

 

 

I used to use a 14" Dagor and have some nice negs but when I

got the first APO Nikkor neg out the fixer it blew my old

companion away, the edges are tack sharp and I love that! You

don't see them too often and if they were a bit more 'seen around

town' they would be on everyones ULF Classic lens list. I'm trying

to get as many as I can before that happens but I don't see them

often. It may be better to use a 14" GC instead and dump that

puppy when the chance for the nikkor comes up.

 

 

The WA end of 8x20 can be very exotic and expensive, do by all

means avoid the Rodenstock Pantogonal-the worst lens ever

made! The specs sound good but the image is truly awful.

 

 

If you want a really 'wide' looking lens on the contact print then

you have to induce a bit of vignette to accentuate the breadth. I

shot UWA lenses on the 8x20 and they never really 'looked' that

wide. When I used a 14 that vignetted a little it actually looked

wider than a 10 1/2" -14x17 Gundlach Ext WA anastigmat I had

been using(nice 'glow' and fantastic midtones but not the

sharpest lens-acceptable by all means but not truly sharp. I

forgave it that because it looked so 'brilliant' on the contact). A

couple of fun lenses to try and do some vignette with are the

series IV and V 8x10 Protars. The series IV has a slightly smaller

circle but more of it is acceptable than the series V. Switching the

front cell to the rear and the same for the back if you have a B+L

series IV brass version will give a bigger and better circle.

 

 

Well hopefully you'll get a few leads out of that bad grammer

ridden mess, good luck!

 

 

CP Goerz