On Finding Signet 80 Lenses

[Aurorabucky]

Hey all, first ever post on here!

So going through stuff gifted by my grandparents long ago I came across a Signet 80 (50mm f2.8) with the extra viewfinder and the 90mm f4 lens. 

To the best of my knowledge, it now works. This took near total disassembly, buying watchmaker tools, finding the service guide reprinted as well as a particularly helpful pdf for getting to the shutter. It was fun and a little terrifying to repair. I had to do creative work to repair a few of the stamped metal parts. Bottom line: All shutter speeds available and proper, film advances, etc etc. And I know the innards stem to stern. I have a roll getting developed and we'll see how they turned out....... 

So I've been trying to get my hands on the missing lens, the unlumenized 35mm f3. 5 Ektanar just to have all three. I've seen earlier articles on here of folks finding these lenses here and there back in the mid 2010s, but I'm having a hard time finding this one.

I can definitely find adapters for these lenses for various platforms. Lol

My question is, did these get snapped up in the past few years? I get they were never that common as this camera didn't have a long run, but I feel like it's a rare thing to see no new sign of about anything anywhere I look.

Thanks and I'll post pictures once I get them digitized! 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Aurorabucky

[jason_withers]

I have seen them pop up every now and then on online auction sites, but not as of late. I'm curious about the issues your camera had that required disassembly. I have the Signet 80 as well and while it took great pictures, I had an issue that I couldn't seem to fix. When pushing the advance lever twice to advance to the next frame, the film would not move smoothly from the right to left side of the camera into the little slot where the exposed film is supposed to curl. Did your camera ever have this issue too? Not sure if it is isolated to my camera. I'd like to be able to fix it and continue to use the camera as the lenses are great. 

-JW

[Aurorabucky]

Hmmmmm, so the film itself wouldn't move far enough, or the mechanism to move it wasn't working right?

Issue number one was the shutter not getting properly set and the shutter itself opening a bit when advancing the lever. THAT problem was in the lever that's shoved over by some wedges on a wheel when the advance happens, which in turn sets the shutter. It would let go of the wheel early and leave the shutter only partially set.

In the attached image, the upper left is the initial situation, upper right is a closeup of the wear, lower right is a part I bent out of some things stainless steel I had sitting around, and then lower left is after bonding it into what remains. 

The rest was largely lubrication of the shutter, that is until I broke part of the rangefinder, and had to improvise a decent repair. *forehead slap*

 

Here is one tip though. The clutch that advances my film/shutter/everything must have a weak spring, and to make sure it works reliably, I push that metal part that allows rewinding of the film to the right as I advance the film. Otherwise, sometimes the cylinder that advances the film and sets the shutter only rotates part-way. This seems to 100% solve that problem, and maybe it's a workaround for yours.

Other than that, I will say that I pull out enough film to thread it into the "injection" compartment when I put a roll in. I don't totally trust their system. 😉

Anyhow, hope that helps and interested to hear how a repair goes if you dare one!  😄

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Aurorabucky

[jason_withers]

Glad you got it working! I am not sure what Kodak was thinking with this particular "injection" film system. It doesn't seem to save any time over the traditional type where you just turn the takeup knob, and it seems way less reliable. Otherwise the lenses they made for this particular Signet camera and nice and well made, Luminized too! 

The problem my camera seems to be having isn't necessarily with the advancing system per se, its just that the film gets caught in that injection slot somewhere and it doesn't "curl" onto itself and make a spool in the chamber. When I took out a partially exposed film cassette before, the geared teeth had torn the sprocket holes on the film in one place because the film wasn't correctly traveling right to left for some reason. I think the geared teeth are advancing but something is preventing the film from moving correctly in the takeup chamber if that makes sense. 

[Aurorabucky]

Out of curiosity have you taken the film injection chamber apart? I recall there's a spring loaded door under the plastic cover. I wonder if something is up, maybe a broken spring somehow and it's in a position where it's blocking the film's entry. If I recall right, it's just an empty chamber, so I'm scratching my head wondering what else it would get caught on..... 

Luckily it's just a couple screws, and getting to that area doesn't involve any surprises.

I'm impressed that the advance gear grip on the film is strong enough to tear it! When I first loaded a roll, I was skeptical if it would grab it in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

[jason_withers]

No, I haven’t attempted to take the chamber apart yet, but I’ll try that to see if anything looks amiss. Thanks! 

[Aurorabucky]

Btw, I am not surprised, but I think I just confirmed that the Signet "injection" style advance does NOT work with polyester film. I think it's too thin and it doesn't curl enough.

Tried a roll of Rollei Retro 400 and I had to rewind it carefully and keep enough leader to put it in another camera. 

In the mean time, here's are a few photos taken with my Signet 80, 90mm f4 lens on Ilford Delta 100. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Aurorabucky
Film explanation

[hunter_compton]

Would it help if you bent the first 1/4" of the leader up at a 45 degree angle or so?

[Aurorabucky]

Or bending it down 45 degrees maybe. Or curling it down a bit. 

[Aurorabucky]

I have one more question for the folks here.

So I did get another lens, a 90mm f4 because my existing one has pitting on the inner element that shows up esp at stopped down apertures.

Meanwhile I found that the infinity focus of my 50mm was catastrophically off, as in no infinity. This explains why all my images with that lens were focused far closer than the subject.

So I took a good guess on the infinity setting, took the lens apart, and got it back to what seems ok, or at least consistent with my other 90mm lens for sharpness.

I used a flat transparent plate with tape across the back of the camera with the shutter open to make sure (and recalibrate the rangefinder) and visually, infinity when wide open looks good, as well as closer distances.

The problem is for both lenses, the focal distance on the lens is off of the actual distance to the focal plane, aka, I can't measure my distance to subject and have that work out in a sharp image. Both lenses are identical in their offness and readings. Both say that, for example that I'm focusing on 50 feet when 25 is sharp. 

Should I go through the trouble of taking them both apart and trying to get that number on the money, or for these Signet lenses, are they known to calibrate correctly to begin with, or do people just shrug at this point and make sure the rangefinder works for focus? 

Thanks! 

 

Edit: Re-reading, darnit. I probably should recalibrate shouldn't I. The lenses are the same because I made them that way. :P.  I'm wary because I took the 50mm apart and sweated bullets getting it back together. 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Aurorabucky
Addendum

[Aurorabucky]

Well, I'll put up this post as it caps the whole story off. 🙂

After months of watching I did snag the 35mm f3. 5 lens off of eBay! 

In terms of the focus issue, I don't think I really have one. In two rolls focused at various distances with multiple lenses I got two blurry shots that weren't the camera's fault. The photos here were Ilford Delta 400 pushed to 800. Snow shots involved a red lens filter (old Kodak series V). I think I'm happy with how they came out, and I hope you enjoy. 🙂

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Aurorabucky