Mamiya C330f winder not automatically releasing after 12 exposures of 120

[D Shifflett]

 

The first roll of film I put through the camera the exposure count passed 12 and just kept going as if there was more film and I didn't notice. Since that first roll I've been careful and once the count gets to 12 I just hold the shutter release and wind to the end as if removing a roll before the end.

I've been OK to remember but am wondering if there might be an easy fix.

I haven't seen any other accounts of this problem on the forums.

Thanks,

Daniel

[laurencecochrane]

Sure your pressure backplate aint set to 220 ? I realise the camera is new to you and settings usage a bit unfamiliar. Read your handbook Download one if need be. I sold a C33 on ebay a whie back buyer said film counter was faulty. On return I discocovered camera functioning perfectly. The IDIOT buyer had not closed the film door properly. DID NOT READ THE HANDBOOK I SENT with the camera.  Which clearly states Film door MUST be closed FIRMLY with TWO clicks. Get a handbook and read it please.

Edited February 12, 2023 by laurencecochrane

[D Shifflett]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. This is my second c330 and I never had a problem with the first. I've been through the manual very thoroughly, many times. I'm not sure I've ever heard two clicks, but I do apply firm, even pressure to both sides when closing the back. Are the two clicks close enough that if you press quickly it could sound as one click?

The pressure plate is in the 120 position.

Thanks again,

Daniel

[laurencecochrane]

Right Two clicks is C3 C33 Never owned a C330 so no notion.if C330 is two clicks or one. but indeed they can just sound like one. The only theory I had was an incorrect pressure plate film selection. So right out of ideas SORRY !

[kmac]

On 2/12/2023 at 8:27 AM, D Shifflett said:

The first roll of film I put through the camera the exposure count passed 12 and just kept going as if there was more film and I didn't notice. Since that first roll I've been careful and once the count gets to 12 I just hold the shutter release and wind to the end as if removing a roll before the end.

That's normal for 120 film. After the 12th exposure, the handle keeps winding the tail end of the backing paper to roll the film up ready for it's removal from the camera. There's no 13th, 14th etc exposures for 120, so it was only backing paper you were winding after the 12th.

The question is: Did you see "13" or any number after "12" appear in the counter when you were exposing that 120 film ?

[D Shifflett]

@kmac It just keeps going, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. It acts as if it is 220 even though the pressure plate is set to 120.

[kmac]

7 hours ago, D Shifflett said:

@kmac It just keeps going, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. It acts as if it is 220 even though the pressure plate is set to 120.

Well in that case, the automatic cam/pawl to stop the counter at "12" is gummed up and/or it's spring has come off. The counter mechanism probably needs cleaning and the spring checked.

Edited February 19, 2023 by kmac

[rodeo_joe1]

There's obviously a mechanical sensor to detect the position of the pressure plate. Locate it and see if it operates properly. 

Most of these old camera faults can be put down to dirt and gunge getting into the works, and are easily fixed by cleaning or just working the offending part to loosen it up. Sticky self-timers being a classic example. 

If you're unlucky enough to encounter a real breakage or wearing out of a part, then either live with it or get it fixed. Because sometimes cameras get to the stage where they spend more time in repair than they do taking pictures. So ask yourself if your hobby is taking pictures, or camera repair? Either is fine, but they're a bit mutually exclusive. 

[laurencecochrane]

I know it sounds CRUDE EVEN A BODGE Which on a camera it is. As 120 220 set is only in the cameras back film door I would give a squirt of WD40 on it. This should not really be done. I used it once on a Canon F1 non functioning meter set needle. It worked EVEN THO I SHOULD NOT have done it. Had to spray up inside cameras internals.  it did work 100 %.. Heard of others doing the exact same on other camera mechanical faults sucessfully. I have done it sucessfully on other cameras too. DISCLAIMER !  PLEASE DO NOT SAY I RECOMENDED IT. OR EVEN BLAME ME. It can go wrong.  Extreme care needed !

Edited February 23, 2023 by laurencecochrane

[D Shifflett]

I'll take a look at the 120/220 mechanism after I finish the current roll. 

Thanks for the responses and I'll take full responsibility for any damage I may do. 

-D

[laurencecochrane]

Just want to wish you the best of luck. With my REALLY DODGEY PIECE OF ADVISE. Not the sort of advise I like to give out. BE SOOOO FXXXXING CAREFULL in  doing it,   Optics or shutter blades will not tollerate.. STAY WELL CLEAR OF.

Again good luck.

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by laurencecochrane

[John Seaman]

On 2/23/2023 at 12:27 PM, laurencecochrane said:

I would give a squirt of WD40 on it

I've freed up a number of camera mechanisms by spraying lubricant, even into holes for example on a 35mm SLR, into the slot which the aperture actuating lever moves in. Obviously at my own risk. But NOT WD40 which is not really a lubricant, more of a dedicated water displacer. I use something called GT85 which is described on the can as a lubricant, penetrant and water displacer with PTFE. I expect something similar is available in different countries.

[rodeo_joe1]

Maybe something that entirely evaporates would be just as effective? Lighter fluid, or ethanol perhaps? 

I'm pretty sure just loosening the dirt, grease or whatever gunk around the plunger/button/lever would be sufficient to get things moving again. 

[laurencecochrane]

7 hours ago, John Seaman said:

I've freed up a number of camera mechanisms by spraying lubricant, even into holes for example on a 35mm SLR, into the slot which the aperture actuating lever moves in. Obviously at my own risk. But NOT WD40 which is not really a lubricant, more of a dedicated water displacer. I use something called GT85 which is described on the can as a lubricant, penetrant and water displacer with PTFE. I expect something similar is available in different countries.

You are right in what you say. But WD certainly leaves an oil film behind. Dedicated water displacer or not. I use it in the intent as much to clean as lubricate. Certianly sorted my old F1 completly even tho it was DODGEY AS HELL.

[laurencecochrane]

4 hours ago, rodeo_joe1 said:

Maybe something that entirely evaporates would be just as effective? Lighter fluid, or ethanol perhaps? 

I'm pretty sure just loosening the dirt, grease or whatever gunk around the plunger/button/lever would be sufficient to get things moving again. 

Should not matter too much Joe as its on the cameras film back nowhere near optics or shutter blades. is the back door removable on the C330 ? As is is on the C3 C33.

[rodeo_joe1]

11 hours ago, laurencecochrane said:

Should not matter too much Joe as its on the cameras film back nowhere near optics or shutter blades.

The pressure plate might be on the back of the camera, but the little gizmo that tells the wind-on mechanism whether it's set at 120 or 220 must be in the main body of the camera. Along with the winding and shutter-cocking mechanism. 

Personally I think that WD-40 ought to be available only on prescription, or by special license. Like any other deadly poisonous substance! 😆

[laurencecochrane]

5 hours ago, rodeo_joe1 said:

 

Personally I think that WD-40 ought to be available only on prescription, or by special license. Like any other deadly poisonous substance! 😆

Do'nt know Joe. THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO SPRAY IT ON THEIR JOINTS !

[orsetto]

All the Mamiya TLRs, right up thru final C330S model, have the somewhat twitchy dual back latch arrangement. The newer 220/330 series is a bit more forgiving than the older C3, C33, etc but you still do need to make a habit of firmly pressing down both top corners of the back after loading to be sure both latches are fully engaged. The larger older bodies tend to have a more audible double click sound to help confirm each latch, the 330 and later models often only emit one click so you can't rely on sound alone. All 330 models have a removable back enabling use of their optional cut film holder.

The only thing that ever goes wrong with Mamiya TLR bodies is frame spacing or frame counting issues, unsurprising since these simple beasts contain no other significant mechanics aside from film transport. Service and repair isn't difficult, but as with most cameras the hard part is removing the cosmetic bits to reveal access screws (and replacing the cosmetic bits afterward). If you don't have any experience with such repairs, pay a tech to do the work cleanly.

The most common Mamiya TLR fault is 120 film transport glitches: weirdly, they'll often fail to handle 120 properly yet 220 will run thru the camera perfectly. The problematic bodies I've owned tended to work fine up to the 11th frame, then go wonky on the 12th (failing to stop on 12 and just winding straight thru the remaining roll). Given the very basic operation of these TLRs, of course its possible to just live with such an issue by remembering you can only rely on 11 or 12 frames (comparing the counter number to the 120 indicator on the back door should remind you anything beyond 12 frames is junk).

As others above have mentioned, theres a chance your issue with this particular 330 may be a simple gumminess or stiffness in the 120 detection mechanism. Setting the pressure plate of all 330 models (and the 220F) to 120 film shifts a tab bar into position to press a spring loaded tab in the body once the back latches, which programs the frame counter and film stop for 12 exposures. When the pressure plate is set for 220, the bar tab on the back is retracted and the spring tab in the body remains untouched (programming the counter and frame stop for 24 exposures).

See photo below of my C330f with open back. Red arrows point to the film type tab in the back and matching spring loaded button in the body (above the upper film chamber, right below the right hand latch). Check that the 120/220 arm inside the back door moves up and down as you revolve the pressure plate from 120 to 220 and back again. The bar with protruding tab should move up toward the top edge of the film door when set for 120, and retract down roughly a quarter inch when set for 220. If the bar is stuck in the lower 220 position even when the pressure plate is set at 120, thats likely the source of your issue: try pulling it up to 120 position with your fingernail. Also check the corresponding spring loaded tab in the body: it should press down easily and pop back up instantly when you release it. If it seems jammed or stuck in the down or up position, esp if up, your 330 is locked into 220 mode and requires servicing (clean, lube, perhaps a new spring).

Edited February 26, 2023 by orsetto

[rodeo_joe1]

22 hours ago, laurencecochrane said:

Do'nt know Joe. THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO SPRAY IT ON THEIR JOINTS !

I was being metaphorical with the 'deadly poisonous' bit. I meant deadly poisonous to lenses, shutters and other delicate mechanisms! Should've made that clearer. 

Even so - spraying it on your joints??? Probably doesn't stop your joints clicking and creaking, but the lingering smell just prevents other people getting close enough to hear it. 🤭

Edited February 26, 2023 by rodeo_joe1

[laurencecochrane]

The lingering smell Joe ? Did you ever meet a pig farmer on a night out ? Not difficult to know their ocupation. SORRY PIG FARMERS NOT PERSONAL.