zz_algern0n Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 on average how long should you be able to do a hasselblad handhold with mirror lockup? im testing out a camera/backs i just bought and there was a roll i shot several shots at 1/15 the back was kind of shaky when locked in place and just stumbled across threads talking about film flatness problems. many photos were out of focus, don't know if it's related to my handholding w/ mirror up at 1/15 or not because i can't remember which photos are which. i shot some at 1/30 on a previous roll & a previous back w/o the stated problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 <I>...many photos were out of focus, don't know if it's related to my handholding w/ mirror up at 1/15...</I><P>Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 i mean my arms were steadied and ive heard of rangefinders being capable of 1/4 without shake , unless that's an exaggeration. the 1/30 stuff looks fine . just want to confirm this isn't a back problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 The only way you'll be able to testthat is to put the camera on a tripod, focus on a piece of newpaper that fills the frame and shoot frames at each full and half f-stop. You'll need toalso do this with asecond back that you know does not have a film flatness problem. I've been using various Hasselblads (mine and rented and borrowed cameras and backs) professionally off and on for over twenty years and know several professionals who have been using theirs for at least that long, and I've never seen or heard of anyone of the people I know speak of a film flatness problem with their equipment. In fact the only place I've read of people supposedly having this problem is in internet forums. To my knowlege no one has ever shown a sample image to back up this claim. That isn't to say it doesn't happen, but justto state my experience. The one thing you want to make sure with Hasselblad backs is that the serial # ofthe insert is the same serial number for the outer shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 The only way you'll be able to test that is to put the camera on a tripod, focus on a piece of newspaper that fills the frame and shoot frames at each full and half f-stop. You'll need to also do this with a second back that you know does not have a film flatness problem. I've been using various Hasselblads (mine and rented and borrowed cameras and backs) professionally off and on for over twenty years and know several professionals who have been using theirs for at least that long, and I've never seen or heard of anyone of the people I know speak of a film flatness problem with their equipment. In fact the only place I've read of people supposedly having this problem is in internet forums. To my knowledge no one has ever shown a sample image to back up this claim. That isn't to say it doesn't happen, but just to state my experience. The one thing you want to make sure with Hasselblad backs is that the serial # of the insert is the same serial number for the outer shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 yeah i will try that thanks for the advice. what's with the matching inserts. the insert that i didn't seem to have a problem with has a non-matching insert but the one that i may have has a matching one. the non-matching one is a little more difficult coming in & out but once in didn't seem to give any troubles. the one that matches seems loose off the back and shakes around off the back a bit. not enough to seem to give any light leaks but it definitely clanks around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 the wording there really sucked i mean one of the backs has a non-matching and one has a matching insert the matching back clanks off the back of the camera a bit as it's not a tight fight. must be less than 1/2 a mm of play, not enough to create leaks, but im worried about critical film plane sharpness. probably just my error in handholding, but im also testing out lenses so its a toss in the air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_. Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Your eyes are very sensitive to slight motion and allow you to keep your body steadier than you could without that sensory input. You can get one of the old folding frame-finders really cheap, I think that'd help significantly. There's even one with a prism that would let you focus off the GG before popping the mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen hazelton Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Just in general, 1/15 is real marginal for handholding anything. Real wide angle lens helps. My limited experience at trying this is that you will have a lot of variation from shot to shot- so you may have two identical 1/15 shots, one blurry, one not. Even the 1/30 shots could have similar problems- you may come up with some 1/15 shots that are sharper than some of your 1/30 shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 can i ask does putting the film under the metal tab on teh insert make a sharpness difference or is that mainly as a guide to keep smooth winding/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny_spinoza Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Maybe that's your problem. The film must go underneath the metal tab on the insert. You'll notice that before the insert is inserted, the tab is set to press against the film. That way, the insert/film combination goes in the back correctly. If you don't put the film under the tab, then your pictures will be blurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_henderson Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 It's unlikely that you can hand hold a Hasselblad reliably at below 1/60. Some people can do it through excellent technique, which reading your post you haven't yet got the experience with the camera to get. Others might get lucky some of the time. If you need to use 1/15 you need a tripod. Similarly the point about rangefinders down to 1/4 sec is exaggerated for the vast majority of users. 1/15 is more like it. Using mirror lock up handheld must make it interesting to see what composition and framing you end up with. By and large you handhold at speeds for which MLU won't do much or any good; and you MLU on a tripod.so your framing doesn't wander. There is no way you're going to tell whether you have a camera or film management technique problem whilst you're handholding at these sorts of speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 the composition doesn't wander. you frame, meter, focus, steady, lockup, and wait for the right moment to shoot. im not framing and then doing a backflip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_kaplan1 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Joshua, mentioned earlier, they used to make a frame finder incorporating an eyepiece that just saw the center of the ground glass through a little prism. That eyepiece was just below the frame finder eyepiece. I think, though, that you're trying to use a 'blad in a situation where you'd be better off using a rangefinder type camera. In fact, if you shot with a 35mm camera you'd have faster lenses available, and could be shooting at 1/30 or 1/60. You also need to read up on the 'blad. You should have known about putting the film under the tab, and matching numbers on the shells and inserts. You'll eventually need to know how to unjamm your camera when everything locks up, the lens won't come off, and you can't wind it. It happens! Easy to fix, too. 30 seconds IF you know where the magic screw is located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_kolosky Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I have to back up what Ellis says. I have been using Hasselblad cameras for almost 30 years (many different ones) with many many different backs, and I have never ever had a film flatness problem. I can show you some very sharp photographs I have made handholding a hasselblad at 1/2 second. Not with the mirror locked up either. But with a very practiced technique on how I held the camera. I suspect what you experienced was camera shake from your handholding. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry_lambert1 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 1/15 if possible handheld, but not right out of the gate with a new (to you) camera. Keep at it and you can acheive alot...like Kevin!! 1/2 sec on a Hassy? Holy S**t!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_seyle3 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 It is ironically prophetic that you mis-typed the word luckup instead of lock-up, since in the case you describe you will need large amounts of luck! BTW, how sharp is sharp? Age is another factor affecting handholding any camera. When I was 20, I could hand hold at slow speeds that I can now at 62 only dream about--as some of you will find out all too soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted March 5, 2003 Author Share Posted March 5, 2003 i found its most likely the shutter speed. i went through 3 rolls with all 3 backs in very low light using 100, 200, and 3200 film w/ all different combinations of tripod, no tripod, moving subject, stationary subject, lockup and no lockup. some speeds were as low as 1/4 and some where as high as 1/125. almost everything was shot wide open or only 1 stop down. around 75% of the photos came out sharp, not critically sharp but good enough for me. doesnt' seem to be any different between backs. i didn't put the film under the tab at the time and it doesn't seem to matter a whole lot. how do you hold at 1/2?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_seyle3 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Do the newsprint test both with the camera hand-held and on a tripod at a range of speeds from 0.5 sec. thru say 1/125th. Keep a record. Shoot 2-3 hand-held so you get a good average. Then inspect the film under magnification comparable to your desired print size. Comare hand-held frames to tripod frames. Any directional blurring will indicate camera movement during exposure. Only you can decide how much is acceptable to you. Let us know how it worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz_algern0n Posted March 5, 2003 Author Share Posted March 5, 2003 good idea, i will try that it is just hard for me to get excited about such a blandly technical test. id rather just go out and shoot and play around. i will do it in a few days nevertheless since the averaging of the handheld shots sounds interesting, i wonder if anyone can give tips on how to hand hold at 1/2 so i can attempt those on the test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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