carl_madson Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Hello,<P>The petition is finally finished and ready to go. Please logon fill out the petition and follow up with the hardcopy. Pass this website around to your friends and family. Print off extra copies and take to swap meets, camera shows, etc. If anyone has any problems at all bring them to my attention!<P><A HREF="http://www.therealnikon.com">http://www.therealnikon.com</A><P>I still need to find out an ending date for this campaign. I will post it on the website during the next couple weeks.<P>Thanks,<BR>Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austin_calhoon Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I'm 100% behind you on your position, but what about this.... What if Nikon did continue to make G lenses and it became the main mount they produced? It would not be very difficult at all for them also to produce an adaptor(sort of like a TC) with electronic contacts on one side, and an manual ring on the the mounting side an F mount The adaptor could be used on any G lens and would be interchangeable between all focal lengths. Throw it on the lens, mount it to an F3, and use the damn thing. Could it be possible? Probably...Hmmm.. I would buy it, and G lenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislong Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 That would cause a change in the spacing between the lens and the film plane, changing the focus point of the lens. Not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_brown4 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 You should have pick a better URL, like: TheNikonDork.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan_antonio_vega Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 What about an FM4a that is just like the FM3a + it allows aperture control throgh the camera. Of course, it will need batteries, so if I want to operate it without batteries, the G lenses would still be useless, but I think the usability of the camera and G lenses will improve. A plus side for nikon would be that it requires people to buy new cameras. A plus side for nikon users is that it will allow to use the new G lenses on a "mainly" manual camera and on the new AF bodies. Is this a good trade off for nikon?? What do you think?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskovacs Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 No tradeoffs. The aperture ring is integral to the feel of operating a Nikon for me. I'm on the petition. My main message to Nikon: when I do "go digital/AF" and buy a body, wide/normal/short tele f/2.8 AFS-VR lenses, those lenses better work manual/aperture priority on my F3. If I need two separate sets of lenses for my film and digital bodies, set #2 is going to be Canon. I'll possibly give up use of my manual lenses on the digital body but that's the price I'll have to pay for progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_green1 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I am completely in agreement with Mike Kovacs. I'll add this: When I buy a 10+ Megapixel Digital SLR, for well over $2000, the ONLY way it will be from Nikon, is if it can mount and meter with my extensive stock of AI/AIS lenses. I made a conscious decision NOT to buy a D100 for this exact reason (for the time being, I'm getting by fine with my Olympus E-10 that cost me well under $1000 as a holding action, waiting to see what Nikon does in their next generation digital body). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_green1 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 One more point. My insistence on the use of AI/AIS lenses on a pro-class digital body is NOT just about having to buy new lenses. It's that those NEW lenses are NOT AS GOOD as the older ones in terms of build quality, or in terms of useability when focusing manually, which I prefer to do for 90+ % of my subject matter. Frankly, it's one thing to pay money for progress. It's quite another to pay money to move backwards on the quality scale. Sorry, but my 105mm f1.8 and my 180mm f2.8 AI lenses have taken more abuse and come through uscathed (except for cosmetic battle scars) than ANY of the present optics could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austin_calhoon Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 of course an adaptor would change the LTF ratio.. duh.., but what if it was sort of like a teleconverter, say a 1.5x? So, your wide lenses would be as wide, but that 200mm G lens would become a 300mm F mount lens. I know this is silly... but so is everything else we talk about here, and take so seriously... just a though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis_marco_de_sebastian Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Yesterday night i tried signing the petition but could not cause it was asking for my state and i do not live in the States... but in Europe. Solutions Carl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskovacs Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I'm in Canada and didn't have this problem. I believe I left the state blank and I put my postal code under the zip code field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd_phillips1 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Carl,I filled out the petition and checked the box and was told my email address is incorrect (webtv??). I was also told to check the signature box which I had already done. When I tried to email you off line, I was told your address was incorrect. What gives??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl_madson Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Luis, <P> I fixed the state dropdown last night after I noticed four or five people from Europe were chosing states. Sorry I didn't quite think that one through. <P> Thanks,<BR> Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl_madson Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Todd, <P> I'm sorry that the form didn't work for you. I don't know what to tell you right now? I just tried adding an entry with your email address and it completed with no problems. I have also been receiving numerous email messages at carlmadson@hotmail.com about this project from other people. My only guess is that the javascript in the form is incompatable with the WebTV browser. <P><P> As I have never used WebTV I will need a couple things from you to help track this down. If you could let me know what browser you are using (okay I am guessing you only have a "WebTV" browser) and what version it might be. Have you ever expierenced problems like this before with other forms? <P> If all else fails we can try the email option again and I can put your comments into the database. Once again my apologies.<P> Thanks,<BR> Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Austin - On G-series lenses the aperture is mechanically set by means of an aperture stop down lever. It seems to be a very common misunderstanding that this is not the case. Best regards, Lars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 <p>Carl - it seems one of the questions in the petition leaves out hardcore MF'ers (but prospective AF'ers, like me) entirely: <p><b>"4. Do you frequently backup your current model Nikon AF with an older MF Nikon?"</b> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl_madson Posted March 5, 2003 Author Share Posted March 5, 2003 Lars, I am sorry as that was not the intent. As I am reluctant to modify the question because 62 (mainly non US residents!) people have already agreed to it... Do you have any suggestions as to another question that I can add to help bridge this gap. I guess what I was thinking when I setup this up was to keep it focused on lens compatibility and G lenses for the time being. Nikon has already started dropping the meter coupling ring off of its newer bodies (i.e. N80). So even if we are successful at getting nikon to keep making D type lenses, your older MF lenses still won't work on a new Nikon body without the d*mn meter coupling ring. Okay now the $25,000 question, did I address your original concerns? Thanks, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_green1 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Carl, my issue is the same as Lars. It's one thing for Nikon to drop the Aperture coupling from an N80 (which is a consumer camera, but it is quite another to drop it from the D100, which is a $2500 body (which, of course, is based on the N80). To me, the first is disturbing, but can be worked around (I bought a used N90s instead of a new N80), but the second is ALARMING. Dropping this feature from a $2500 digicam makes me wonder it even the future PRO body 10+ Megapixel camera will support AI/AIS lenses. And if not, then Nikon could very well be giving away their franchise with Pros with such a move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph_wisniewski Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Lars and Carl, You don't need to think about new questions or the suitability of old ones. Once the first signature goes on a petition, that's it, it's frozen, done, you can't change the text at all. The petition appears to be reasonably well worded and professional. I wish you good luck with it, even though I don't agree with it. The home page is a bit different. The second bullet point is totally wrong "Allows the photographer to use the aperture ring as a backup when electronic connection fails." There is no electronic connection in a G lens. Nikon cameras (since AI-S lenses back in the 80's) have used the same mechanism for aperture control, they move the lens stop down lever a percise distance, instead of moving it all the way to the far limit of its travel (which is the mode you use when using the aperture ring to set aperture). So, if this "mechanical connection" fails, you lose aperture control, weather you're using the ring on the lens or the dial on the camera. The lens just stays wide open, no matter what you set either aperture control to. In short, if a camera is working sufficiently well to take a picture (charge the shutter, wind the film) the onboard aperture control will work. The "1981" part of your "history" also needs a major overhaul. The main characteristic of AI-S lenses is their "linear aperture control". This allows you to have program and shutter priority exposure modes on the F5, F4, FA, FG, FG20, N90, 8008, 6006, 6000, 4004, 2020 and 2000. AI-S is a heck of a lot more than "slight advantages on the Nikon FA, 2000 and 2020 ONLY!!!" (but I do like all the exclamation points). The focal length selection notch is just a trivial part of the system. Ciao! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl_madson Posted March 8, 2003 Author Share Posted March 8, 2003 Joe, Thanks for you comments. I changed the web page to reflect the information that you provided regarding AIS lenses... thank you! Here is what I was trying to convey with the mechanical/electronic connection bullet. Yes on 'G' lenses the aperture is selected mechanically. There is indeed an electronic connection though between AF Nikon bodies and all AF Nikon lenses. At first I believe there were five CPU contacts located on the top inner edge of the lens mount. Now the new 24-120 'G' lens appears to have ten CPU contacts. With the newest line of cameras as well as current pro/older models (in matrix metering mode) the camera will not fully "see" the lens thus disabling the cameras meter if the electronics from the lenses are not recognized. With the new 'G' lenses since there is no aperture ring if for some reason the electronic connection fails you can still switched to CW metering or use an older body by using the aperture ring. I received a couple comments from folks having experienced this very problem and prompting me to include it on the petition. I myself owned a lens that although the one of the CPU contacts was ripped off while mounting the lens I was still able to use CW metering via the coupling ring until I could get the CPU contacts repaired. -Carl<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_warn Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I was not aware that the newer consumer models had no aperture coupling ring. This means that older lenses won't work on newer bodies and newer lenses won't work on older bodies. If Nikon is going to shift to an incompatible mount why didn't they go all the way? The one historical problem area of the F mount has always been the restricted size of the exit pupil available for the lenses. This limited pupil size is one reason why the wide angles tend to vignette and a larger diameter mount would allow much more freedom in lens design. As for myself, I am 100% behind this petition. This is a path that I do not want Nikon to take and the only thing that will stop them is a LARGE response. As for the Nay Sayers out there, why on earth did you buy a Nikon? The purpose of buying Nikon has always been compatability, you can even mount an S mount rangefinder Nikkor on a Nikon F and use it. An Olympus point and shoot zoom lens ZLR would have served you just as well and probably have cost less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
over exposure Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I'll download the petition right now!! In Italy i made noise on www.nital.it for bad talkings about he G mount?? i have the right to pretend to use my AI lenses without lose the meter, and more even to be in love with some old FM camera without being forced to the used market..or having an Af without having to buy another lens for my fm2.... Canon was more honest, the mount changed, you could stay or leave...in the Nikon way is even worse... If i had to choose today, I would have chosen a different road, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
over exposure Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I'll download the petition right now!! In Italy i made noise on www.nital.it for bad talkings about he G mount?? i have the right to pretend to use my AI lenses without lose the meter, and more even to be in love with some old FM camera without being forced to the used market..or having an Af without having to buy another lens for my fm2.... Canon was more honest, the mount changed, you could stay or leave...in the Nikon way is even worse... If i had to choose today, I would have chosen a different road, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Scott, are you saying that Nikon's wide angles vignette more than e.g. Canon's (since the latter mount is larger)? I've never heard of this before, what's the source of the info? From what I've read, Nikon excels in wide angles. E.g. Canon's 17-35/2.8L gets a "3/5" rating by Björn Rorslett, while the Nikkor is 5/5. One of the reasons is pronounced vignetting in the Canon lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now