Mamiya Press/Universal 50/6.3

[babouphoto]

Hello -

 

I'm thinking getting this lens for my Mamiya Universal. Anyone could post pictures of the lens used in an interior shoot? I'd like to see how much distortion the lens produces when in a small space as opposed to a more forgiving landscape shot.

 

Thanks!

[orsetto]

Haven't had the pleasure of using the 50 myself, tho I have used the 65, 75, and 50/75 viewfinders. It will be most interesting if anyone replies with examples of such photos: the Press system fell out of general use ages ago, the 50mm f/6.3 came late in its lifespan, and the Press was not in common professional use for architecture. As medium format camera prices cratered with the rise of digital, many more enthusiasts were able to afford the Press system, but here again the 50mm is rare-ish and most enthusiasts aren't shooting precision interiors with it.

 

Just looking at a couple hundred pics made with the 50/6.3 on flick'r, it appears there is either some sample variation and/or some photographers are posting digitally corrected images while others are not. It seems to make beautiful images overall, but like similar lenses in other formats key-stoning is a huge issue in many of the posted architectural shots. Weeding those out, there seems to be a 50/50 chance of barrel distortion in the more carefully composed architectural shots (and very very few are interiors). Either a shot has zero visible distortion, or some barrel distortion is there on a scale comparable to similar lenses.

 

The unfairly-maligned, ancient 65mm f/6.3 has very low distortion, but isn't as wide or sharp. The 75mm f/5.6 is superb but barely qualifies as wide. You may need to buy a 50mm f/6.3 and test it yourself to know whether it will truly suit your purposes. My experience of the 50mm and 75mm Mamiya external viewfinders was not good: I found them terrible, with near-invisible brightline frames. Approximating with the older, clearer 65mm finder was preferable handheld, and of course the reflex viewing back accessory is the best option when precise framing is necessary. Unfortunately most of the available 50mm Press lenses are located in Japan, which makes hassle-free audition unlikely. They're scarce enough in USA/Europe that you should find a ready pool of buyers if you decide the lens isn't for you, at a slight loss on resale that you could perhaps write off as a "rental expense".

[babouphoto]

Exactly my issue. The images on Flickr are all over the place. I found some forums where people complained about distortion and some saying that it is distortion-free so go figure. I already bought the lens so I will know soon enough but was really curious to hear from current users. Thanks!

[orsetto]

If you eventually decide to return to this topic, I'm much looking forward to a photo or two, and your opinion of the 50mm performance. Trying to make up my own mind between upgrading my 100mm f/3.5 to the legendary f/2.8, or the thrill of 50mm super wide on 6x9. The cost is about the same either way, but the Mamiya 50mm viewfinder is so awful I'd probably need to drop a hefty additional sum for a more usable Leica or Voightlander "20-21mm finder". The reflex back is a non-starter until I can find a cheap spare M adapter to permanently mount it on (those circular back latches are from the ninth circle of hell: its far easier to take the entire mount on/off, with back attached).

 

I really like the old Mamiya 65mm (esp after hacking it open to its "undocumented" f/4.0 true max aperture), but its definitely a dated lens with a certain "look" that isn't always what I want (or wide enough). The 75mm was great but AOV didn't do it for me, so I resold it quickly (odd, because my go-to lenses are 35mm on 24x36 and 60mm on 6x6).

[babouphoto]

I use the 100/2.8 which is great. I think it is a massively underrated system with wonderful optics. My main cameras are a Leica M10 with APO 50/2 (among others) and a Rolleiflex 2.8D - the Mamiya is in the same league. It is just a little cumbersome and slow to use but it is not meant to be a fast camera so I don't mind. Will do on the 50/6.3 once I get the lens - clearly not a popular choice!

[babouphoto]

Btw, I don't think that you can use another viewfinder as it looks like the OEM 50mm one bends to compensate for parallax as you input the focal distance.

[orsetto]

Btw, I don't think that you can use another viewfinder as it looks like the OEM 50mm one bends to compensate for parallax as you input the focal distance.

 

Its very subtle, to the point of not really being that significant (at least when I owned the 75mm). Its one of those goofy cases where a feature was added when the feature wouldn't be necessary if the item itself were not over-designed to incorporate that feature in the first place (the Mamiya 50, 75, and Polaroid external finders are way taller than they need to be, in order to accommodate the parallax correction feature, which wouldn't be necessary if the finder sat flusher with its mounting shoe like the older 65mm finder). Circular logic, plus one needs to remember to use it, plus its frame lines are near-invisible anyway.

 

Mamiya had a fetish for such nifty-yet-annoying complications. Like the auto-parallax vf indicator and side panel distance rod of the 330 TLRs: they seem like brilliant indispensable features, until you realize what an utter PITA it is to remember to reset them for each lens change. Every. Damned. Time. My TLR photography became vastly simpler (and more fun) when I sold the 330 and standardized on the 220. The all-lenses-at-a-glance distance/exposure comp scale of the 220 is far more intuitive (requiring no user input), and the two fixed engraved lines in the viewfinder solve 90% of all parallax issues, again without requiring user input. Of course, YMMV: one photographer's annoyance is another's vital feature.

[babouphoto]

Haha! So true. I did not test the difference of putting a third-party viewfinder on the Mamiya Universal so cannot comment.

[kmac]

I don't have any interior shots but distortion is clearly visible in this shot of a corrugated iron structure exposed on long expired Ektar 100 used as a test film. It seems the closer the subject is to the camera, the more distorted it will be. But this film is my only experience with the 50mm lens so far. The rest of the images on that film were of broader landscapes and I was completely happy with them apart from lens flare in a couple of shots when the Sun was to the side.

 

Mamiya 50mm f6.3 distortion

 

Mamiya 50mm f6.3 lens flare. Shadows indicate that the Sun was well to the side but still not far enough towards the rear of the camera

[babouphoto]

Thanks. It is totally acceptable. The tree on the edge is actually perfectly straight. I indeed need to see something closer to the subject as you mentioned but thank you!

[kmac]

I found some forums where people complained about distortion and some saying that it is distortion-free so go figure.

 

No it's not distortion free. If you have the 50mm viewfinder, you can see any distortions before you press the shutter. Using the matching viewfinder is key to what you want and get from the lens. If distortions show in the viewfinder, and those distortions are not desirable to you, don't press the shutter button, use some other lens. This is what I'm learning with mine.

 

Ok so what I've just done for you is to grab my Super 23 with the 50mm viewfinder attached and scanned around inside the house to see what's happening. The viewfinder is taking in just about a whole room with me standing in the adjoining hallway. Anything in the middle is pretty perpendicular, straight and normal. Anything on the periphery such as tall furniture and wall corners are "bowed", convex looking, and it's quite noticeable.

 

The tree you mentioned in my first pic is not really a good indication, in real life it may be curved, and the lens straightened it up. The iron structure on the concrete slab is what clearly shows the effect of distortion from this lens.

 

To be honest with you, I love my 65mm much more than the 50, but I can see the potential of the 50 and plan to use it often for landscapes. The 65 also distorts but the images are easy to fix in PS's "Lens Distortion Correction". Images from the 50mm I haven't tried yet in PS. I'll try the first pic and see what can be done with it, but I think it has a certain artistic almost cartoonish look about it so I might leave it the way it is perhaps.

[tom_chow]

No it's not distortion free. If you have the 50mm viewfinder, you can see any distortions before you press the shutter. Using the matching viewfinder is key to what you want and get from the lens. If distortions show in the viewfinder, and those distortions are not desirable to you, don't press the shutter button, use some other lens. This is what I'm learning with mine......

The distotion in the finder does not reflect the distortion of the taking lens, that is why the frame lines are bowed with a classic barrel distortion. A vertical wall at the edge of the finder curves similar to the curved frameline, which is indicating to you that the it will follow the edge of the frame without that distortion. Almost all finders of this type are like this, including the Hasselblad super wide and Mamiya-7 43mm, both lenses have very low distortion despite the finders.

[babouphoto]

I just need to try the lens (duh) as it is not popular enough to get a lot of samples. Thanks

[tom_chow]

Here is a sample from ~1995 on a Mamiya Universal. It shows the rectilinearity at the edge, and the flare when the sun is right in front (no hood) - not selected for composition.

I don't have the Universal any more, but I still have the 50/6.3, which I remounted on a lens board for a Technika-70.

[babouphoto]

This is great. Very little distortion indeed which was my expectation! Thank you.

[miroslavvassilev]

Guys - sorry to intervene. I am a new owner of an Mamiya Press 50 mm F6.3 lens and I have some shutter (B does not work) and focusing (stiffness) issues.

Any one who can recommend a place where I can buy service manual or eventually have a service video how can I reach the shutter mechanism ?

 

Thank you all in advance.

[kmac]

Guys - sorry to intervene. I am a new owner of an Mamiya Press 50 mm F6.3 lens and I have some shutter (B does not work) and focusing (stiffness) issues.

Any one who can recommend a place where I can buy service manual or eventually have a service video how can I reach the shutter mechanism ?

 

Thank you all in advance.

 

Can't find anything on the internet. It has me worried as well, on mine the "B" sticks now and then but I've never used "B" for picture taking with this lens.

Do all other functions of the shutter work ok? can you live without "B"? With the focus ring, you could try heating it slowly and evenly with a hair dryer or fan heater.

The 50mm is costly to buy so the less you do to it in the way of repairs, the more it will hold it's value, unless it's in the hands of an experienced Tech.

Just having a gander at mine, to reach the shutter would require removing the front bezel, which has no spanner slots, by using pieces of thick double sided tape

and a cylindrical object to press onto the tape and turn anti-clockwise. That alone may not give access to the shutter mechanism so other parts may need to be removed.

This is where it could get tricky but everything that's done should be recorded in order of disassembly by note taking and digital photos taken. Extensive note taking and many photos will be very beneficial, they're not to be skimped on.

[dan_fromm2]

I haven't done it, but I believe that if you unscrew the lens' rear cell you'll expose a retaining ring that holds the shutter to the focusing mount. Unscrew the retaining ring, ...

[miroslavvassilev]

I also suspect the access to the shutter is from behind and not through the front, but how can one be sure :). I do not know if there is any Mamiya technician available in The Netherlands to be honest - otherwise - I will be giving him a try. I negotiated with the seller and final price on this lens was 200 USD (shipping included) with the issues described (shutter sticks on B and focusing is stiff, but once you move it couple of times it loosens). Do you think it was a reasonable price ?

[kmac]

Do you think it was a reasonable price ?

 

That was a very good price if the lens came with it's matching viewfinder, if not, the price was about average for just a lens on it's own.

[orsetto]

miroslavvassilev, I would perhaps be wary of a 50/6.3 that's described as having "stiff focusing". My understanding is the focus helical of some 50mm lens batches were similar to the equally scarce, final black 100mm f/3.5, which could become very problematic or impossible to repair if used after its lube dried out enough to become "stiff". Apparently this was due to an ill-advised metal combination in the helical thread construction.

 

The leaf shutter should be repairable by any technician that commonly services other medium format lenses with leaf shutters (Hasselblad, Rolleiflex, etc). While certainly less of a project to tackle than a Hasselblad Compur shutter, the 50mm Press lens seems tricky to get into for DIY. Most likely one would get to the shutter internals by methodic disassembly of the rear mount: this lens is sophisticated enough that the job should be done by a pro with a variety of tools (and enough experience/intuition to use them to best effect).

 

The expense of such proper servicing would offset the bargain purchase price, most likely making this example the same cost as the many fully-functional 50s that are often available from reputable Japanese eBay dealers for approx $360 (USD) including caps and the dedicated viewfinder. Most of the Press lenses are easy to get into and DIY service, but the 50 is a little peculiar: in this case I would be more inclined to purchase a lens that doesn't need immediate repair.