Accessory idea for film bodies: digital metadata recorder

[Karim Ghantous]

This might sound a bit like a white elephant, but hear me out. Let's say that you want to record basic exposure information digitally for images taken with your film body. You could, very probably, rig up some circuitry to do that inside the camera (remember Huw Finney's projects all those years ago?). But, I have an idea that not only records basic exposure data, but takes a small digital image at the same time that you press the shutter. The catch: it has to be external.

 

To start with, imagine a device that's about the same size as the Meter MR, but with a lower profile. For those who maybe don't know what that is, here's what it looks like mounted on an M4:

 

DSC_1049b by Terry Skibby, on Flickr

 

So, let's lose some height, and get rid of redundant controls. Now, imagine a small display on the top. Instead of the metering lens, imagine a small digital camera inside with an 8.5x zoom lens (16-135mm equivalent).

 

The device with not just connect to the shutter speed dial to record the shutter speed, but it will have a connection to the hotshoe so that it knows when the shutter is fired (perhaps this is one advantage of front-curtain sync, which I otherwise don't like). For those cameras that don't have a hotshoe, such as the M2, M3 and M4, you can connect the device to the sync terminal with a short cable.

 

Two variables will have to be entered manually, however: the focal length of the lens and the aperture of that lens. The good thing here is that unlike with the digital M bodies, your metadata will have an accurate record of the aperture, instead of having to guess.

 

The top display of the device could simply show a histogram instead of the feed from the sensor. Or it could show both, overlaid. The recording media could be an SD card, or perhaps a Micro SD card. The sensor will be small, naturally, and give an image more similar to the viewfinder than the film plane. This is not a disadvantage, as the point is not to have a digital back-up of the final image, but to have a digital 'proofini'* of every exposure you take.

 

The sensor in the device wouldn't have to be more than 4Mpx or so. It doesn't have to be that special, but I think as a matter of principle, it should show decent quality on a per-pixel basis.

 

The lens would be the tricky part - can you make an 8.5x zoom lens that small? You could if you kept the aperture small. That would mean that the sensor would have to be quite sensitive, and so it would have as little as 2Mpx if necessary. The camera system could be mounted transversely.

 

And, if the display was a touch screen, it could as for special data when necessary. For example, if you set the exposure to bulb, it could ask you to enter the shutter time post-exposure. There could also be a function that lets you mark the beginning of a new roll, but this would not be a big deal either way.

 

I'd love to see someone make something like this, even if I never use it. So, FWIW, I officially release this product idea into the public domain for any person or party to use as they see fit, including the manufacture and sale of such a device, and I forego all consideration and/or royalty payments, potential or real. So, if anyone wants to make it, go nuts. :)

 

*I believe that it's a colloquial Italian word for 'small proof print' that you get from a photo lab if you order scans at the same time as processing.

[Ed_Ingold]

There was an optional back for a Nikon F5, which recorded exposure data in the blank space between frames. Every photo which appeared in Popular Photography from 1956 (my first look) onward listed exposure data. The photographer either recorded that information diligently in a notebook, or (as I suspect) made it up on the spot. I carry a notebook at events to record names and the first relevant image number. Several Nikon cameras in my past had the ability to record voice notes (never once used).

 

Can you invent a dongle which will take names?

[JDMvW]

What you are describing is something like the APS film cameras had, but I think no one can access those data today. There were also data recording backs from Nikon and other OEM companies. The simpler date stamps built into cameras like some of the EOS film cameras largely still work, although date stamps may have gone past their limits by now.

 

Spiratone and others made some "attach-to-the-lens" data thingies, but I can't find a image of one.

Edited April 20, 2019 by JDMvW

[Richard Williams]

Several late model film SLRs have the ability to record metadata digitally (though not digital images!). A couple of decades later, it can be hard to find the required cables and software, or to make them work with current computers, but one company is selling a modern hardware/software package that works with today's PCs and Macs:

 

Cameras — Meta35

[Karim Ghantous]

Yes, the Minolta Alpha 9 I think had the ability to record exposure data on a card or something.

 

The Contax 645 puts data between frames as well, which I think is dumb. Just put it right on the edge of the image, shoot with a 90% viewfinder, and crop out the data if you don't want it.

 

The advantage of this device I'm describing is that you get a small digital file to go with the exposure data.

[Heritage Cameras]

Spiratone and others made some "attach-to-the-lens" data thingies, but I can't find a image of one.

 

I believe that was the Spiratone Recordate, and here's a news report from the September 1975 edition of Popular Science magazine (with a small picture):

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RwEAAAAAMBAJ&q=Spiratone+Recordate#v=snippet&q=Spiratone Recordate&f=false

 

A similar (possibly the same?) product was sold here in the UK at about the same time by St. James's Photographic under the name "Optical Dating Device"!

[JDMvW]

THAT'S IT

[Ed_Ingold]

I bought a recording back for my F100, which put a date in the image area rather than between frames. It worked, but who wants a visible date code in each frame. I had a P&S camera which did the same.

 

Among my collectibles is a Kodak "Autographic" camera, There is a door in the back through which you can use a stylus (provided) to write notes on special film. The link is a different camera than mine, but illustrates the principle.

 

https://petapixel.com/2013/08/27/blast-from-the-past-kodaks-autographic-cameras-let-you-sign-your-negatives/

[Richard Williams]

I bought a recording back for my F100, which put a date in the image area rather than between frames. It worked, but who wants a visible date code in each frame.

I have this too, but only as a spare back (standard backs are hard to find). As a databack it's very limited. The F5 databack is much better - not only does it imprint data optically between frames (sorry Karim, I agree with Ed that this is a better solution), but it also communicates the date/time from its clock to the camera, which is then added to the rest of the metadata the F5 already stores digitally. Unfortunately, adding the F100 data back doesn't change the metadata the camera records; the timestamp isn't communicated, and the camera doesn't have an internal clock, so there's no way for it to store date/time digitally. Otherwise, both cameras store a pretty complete range of metadata, including exposure parameters, regardless of whether a databack is fitted.

[Karim Ghantous]

The F5 databack is much better - not only does it imprint data optically between frames (sorry Karim, I agree with Ed that this is a better solution),

If you don't cut the roll, yes, I think it can work. But for those who cut their negatives? ;-)

[Ed_Ingold]

If you don't cut the roll, yes, I think it can work. But for those who cut their negatives? ;-)

Most people cut film into strips of four or six (preferred). Date and time recorded between adjoining frames will bracket the frame in question. I was not aware the F5 recorded data internally.

[Richard Williams]

If you don't cut the roll, yes, I think it can work. But for those who cut their negatives? ;-)

With the F5/MF-28 back you can have it both ways - you can choose in frame or between frame imprinting. There's also a simpler MF-27 back for the F5, which I think is like the F100's MF-29 - i.e., in-frame imprinting only, and no transmission of the timestamp to the camera's metadata recorder. The Canon and Minolta models that save metadata seem to have internal clocks - the meta35 page lists date and time as available fields without mentioning databacks. Edited April 22, 2019 by Richard Williams

[Heritage Cameras]

With the F5/MF-28 back you can have it both ways - you can choose in frame or between frame imprinting. There's also a simpler MF-27 back for the F5, which I think is like the F100's MF-29 - i.e., in-frame imprinting only, and no transmission of the timestamp to the camera's metadata recorder. The Canon and Minolta models that save metadata seem to have internal clocks - the meta35 page lists date and time as available fields without mentioning databacks.

The Nikon F6 film camera with the MV-1 data reader would seem to provide this information electronically:

 

Using the Nikon MV-1 with the Nikon F6

[Richard Williams]

The Nikon F6 film camera with the MV-1 data reader would seem to provide this information electronically:

 

Using the Nikon MV-1 with the Nikon F6

You can use that gadget with the F5 and F100 too, though the Meta35 dongle is more flexible and will probably be cheaper. Looks like the F6 must have an internal clock like the Canon and Minolta bodies, so no need for a data back like the MF-28 to provide timestamps.