First roll of film on my Kiev 60

[john_dixon5]

I have just had my first roll of film developed taken with my new

Kiev 60 camera. It was refurbed (I think) from Kievcamera in Atlanta.

Pictures came out great, no overlapping negatives, no flare, (camera

was flocked by Kievcamera)exposure spot on (using the built in ttl.

 

I would like to hear from other Kiev 60 owners, are Kiev's as bad as

people on this forum make out?

[matt_m__toronto_]

kievs are low grade MF cameras, but...I've always been a firm believer in larger negative size = nice quality picture. ie.) crummy 4x5 camera and lens will knock the socks off of a Hassie and great lens. Just like a Kiev will make a nicer enlargemnent than an F5.

 

It's how you use it that counts.

[evan_dong1]

John,

 

Since the camera has no overlapping of frames AND it was flocked, you can consider it reliable for daily non-commerical use. If you haven't yet bought any other lenses, take a look at the 30mm Fisheye, 50mm Flektogon, 120mm Biometar, 150mm Hartblei version of the Kalinear, and the 180mm Sonnar. Justr make sure that all the lenses are of MC designation. You will have a ball shooting with these lenses. I myself switch between (3) Exakta 66 MK3 and use those lenses mentioned PLUS more. I have the Schnieder 60mm, 80mm, and 150mm. I also use the CZJ 300mm SOnnar and Pentacon 500mmF5.6. JOin the Kiev Forum at www.Delphiforums.com and log youeself into the world of Kiev/Pentacon6/Exakta 66 users. There is also another website which showcase user's photos. Here it is http://www.kievaholic.com/.

[andrew_schank]

You may be lucky and have found a working camera, but I'd wait until you shot more than a few rolls before dumping money into more lenses. I've seen the inside of those cameras, and they are poorly built and unlikely to hold up over time under even moderate use. I gave up on the Kiev 60 after the third camera I tried failed within a few months of light use. With Mamiya selling a compact 120 SLR with lens and AE finder for $750, I am actually surprised people are still buying the Kiev stuff.

[r s]

It's funny how different we all are.

 

Mark's comment: "..I've always been a firm believer in larger negative size = nice quality picture. ie.) crummy 4x5 camera and lens will knock the socks off of a Hassie and great lens. Just like a Kiev will make a nicer enlargemnent than an F5.".

This is completely the opposite to my own thoughts. In the right hands any photo taken by a Haselblad for instance (as Mark used that as an example) could easily blow the 'crummy 4x5 camera out of the water'. If it's unsharp it will look even more so at enlargement. The only advantage with 'larger negative size' is lower pixelation at big enlargements.

I also doubt that the Kiev will make a better looking enlargment than an F5. It's down to lens glass, film speed and photographic technique - and the Kiev already lost on the first of those three.

 

Kiev is crap.

[bruce_hamm]

THE reason to invest in Kiev is to access the lenses. Take a look at the line-up that Evan has assembled and then picture yourself buying the same kit from any other manufacturer. Unless you have *really* deep pockets, then its impossible. Sure, Mamiya offers an inexpensive alternative. Hell, for the asking price of some upgraded Kievs, you could get a decent used Hasselblad. However, there's no way that I'd be able to afford a 30mm superwide for a Hassie...

 

In the end, if you're happy with the results it produces then that's all that matters. If you are worried about reliability, carry a backup.

[andrew_schank]

That 30mm can be fun to play around with, but you don't need a Kiev camera to use it. you could just buy a cheap adapter and put the K60 or Zeiss Jena lenses on a Mamiya, Pentax 645, and other more reliable cameras. By the way, The only lens I tried in that mount that was really exceptional was the 50mm Zeiss Flektagon. I tried 4 different Kiev lenses (45, 80, 30, and 150mm)and they were mediocre at best, which surprised me after all the write ups that praised the optics of these cameras. Even the sample of the 180mm MC Sonnar I had,which was brand new, was very low on contrast at all apertures. I think these cameras and lenses promise much more than they deliver.

[evan_dong1]

Andrew,

 

I am using the 30mm Zodiak and an Arsat 55mmF4.5 PCS on my Exakta 66MK3 and also on my Mamiya 645. FOr those two lenses, no loss of contrast. Regarding the CZJ lenses, Yes you are right have some loss of contrast. I found that some actually are better than others. THis occurred within my non-MC and also some MC lenses. The MC coating on the very last set of MC lenses made (mainly four or fiver digit serial numbers) are the best of the lot. Sorry to hear that you had a bad time with the CZJ optics. I never bought into any of the Kiev bodies. That was mainly due to asthetic values, NOT for functionality purposes. I went straight for the Mamiya 645 adapter. I discovered I perfer the 6 X 6 size, so that was how I bought into the Exakta 66 system. The Schnieder optics are on par with my Hasselblad optics. The Hartblei optics (reworked Kiev optics) are way beter tha the standard Kiev optics. I use a modified Harblei 65mmPCS on my Hasselblad 2000FCM. Its been very sharp and contrasty. No problems with that lens.

[jaroslav_ilnytskyi]

Two lenses that I am using on my Kiev-60 - Vega 90mm f2.8 and Flektogon MC 50mm f4 both are very sharp and contrasty. I compared slides taken with these lenses and with Pentax 35mm SMC lenses and at the same magnification ratio the results are very close, indeed. I think, this is very good given the size of 6x6 frame. The multicoating and lens hood is important for Flektogon, Vega got longer body which serves as a hood. The sharpness/contrast I am able to get from any of MF folders I own (645, 6x6, 6x9 mostly Tessars/Skopars uncoated) is inferior by detectable margin. However, as it is known, Kiev's should be properly CLA'ed to work fine. I fiddled with flocking of the mirror chamber, with the gap between shutter curtains, improving film flatness, etc in my camera. That might be not suitable for everyone. Personally, I like the results of mine and see no point of not using it due to any sort of considerations.

 

Good luck with yours,

[adrian_vincent_twiss]

"Are Kiev's as bad as people on this forum make out?". Yes, probably. The damnable thing about Kievs is the sheer lottary you enter into when buying one. Lots of suppliers promising improvements and charging high prices. I don't really hold with comparisons with other systems. At the end of the day you are still handing over a substantial number of Dollars (or Pounds, as in my case). I got a bit over enthusiastic a couple of years ago and bought a modified Kiev 88. It has, in fact, performed flawlessly and has the added advantage of accepting Hasselblad backs. It also produces high quality photographs. I own Zeiss 50, 80, 120, 180, 300 lenses (all multi coated) and Schneider 60 and 150mm lenses. I also have a Pentacon Six and Mamiya 645. So, why am I doubtful about Kievs if mine performs faultlessly? Well the fact is I cant really enjoy the camera because deep down I don't trust it. I bought into the system without fully researching (my fault entirely) and now don't have the funds to replace it. The resale value will be a lot less than I paid for it so I have decided to stick with it and use it very carefully. If I had my time over again I would not have bought into this system. My advice would be to live with your purchase and use it with great care. Be very discriminating about the lenses you purchase and make sure you absolutly need a particular lens before buying. Then if you camera fails at least you can console yourself that you got some pleasure out using it and buy something more mainstream that, if it goes wrong, you can have repaired easily.

 

Adrian

[evan_dong1]

Adrian,

 

SOunds like you have a Hartblei 1006SM or 1006M. That modified Kiev 88 was completely upgraded to accept Hasselblad backs.

 

What has your track record been with this camera since you owned. I would lbe most inyterested in buying one, but had hesitated as I had the same feeling as you. That was why I went the Exakta 66 route. Peace of mind and no worries. The Exakta 66 has performed for me time over time whenever I travel overseas. Moreso than my Rolleiflexes. The versatility of the lenses IS THE REASON for that remark. WOuld you care to share your experience with this particular body with the rest of the users and also future buyers (me)?

[adrian_vincent_twiss]

Evan

 

There is a small tale to tell about how I got this camera. I ordered a Kiev 88CM from Mike Fourman in Atlanta. When I got it I owned mainly Ukrainian lenses. I discovered that none of my wide angle lenses would fit. They were manufactured between 1979 and 1984. Mike sent me a modified retaining ring. With this ring fitted my wide angle lenses fitted without any problem but my vega 120mm manufactured in 1987 and the standard lens were both very slack. I considered this unacceptable so Mike, for the cost of the return postage offered me a Hartblei. I did infact send him an extra $50 on top of the postage and was surprised and delighted when a Hartblei with real leather trim and TTL prism arrived 3 weeks later. The original camera had come without a TTL prism. Mike treated me very fairly. The only thing I was surprised about was that he was unaware (at that time) of the fact that Hasselblad backs were compatible.

 

Shortly after getting the Hartblei I disposed of my Ukrainian lenses and upgraded to Zeiss and Schneider as detailed in my previous post. The Hartblei has a twist and lock bayonet mount that easily accomodates all these lenses.

 

I further upgraded it with two Hasselblad A12 backs, an Acute Matte focussing screen and the latest generation of Hasselblad WLF plus a genuine Hasselblad Chimney finder (bought very cheaply from a camera fair). When I had the screen fitted I asked my repair man to check the camera over. He reported that all shutter speeds were consistently 1/4 stop too fast and that there was no evidence of banding at the higher speeds. He also opined that the camera was "quite well made" and was intrigued by the modifications Hartblei had incorporated. I consider this to be a more than reasonable standard of accuracy considering the origin of the camera.

 

In the field I find the camera easy to use provided I do not rush things. I am always careful to double check that the camera has been wound on before adjusting the shutter speed. Film transport is not as smooth as my Mamiya 645 but is much quieter and smoother when compared to the old Zenith 80 (Salyut C) I used in the 1970s. The Hartblei NT backs are fine for fit but not as well finished as my two Hasslelblad backs.

 

The camera has never let me down but I still cant bring myself to be as confident in its use as I am with my Mamiya or indeed my Pentacon Six. My repair man has a Kiev 88 repair manual but obviously this will not give any details of the Mirror Lock Up System. Also, as Hartblei modified the shutter mechanism and not issued schematics of the new design I suspect repairs will be "challenging" to say the least. Perhaps more knowlegable people on this forum may know just how much the shutters have been modified.

 

Strangely although I don't really trust this camera I get a lot of satisfaction and enjoyment from using it. It turns out results that are easily comparible to my Mamiya 645 system and at enlargements greater than 14in square superior to my canon system (which contains mainly canon prime lenses). However this is as much to do with the size of the negative as anything else but the Zeiss and Schneider lens are very sharp. You can turn out the quality of work that most committed amateurs would be more than satisfied with.

 

To conclude, I still feel that for photographers wanting to buy into a system that they envisage keeping for a long time (I have owned my original Canons for nearly 25 years) the Kiev/Hartlbei may not be a wise choice. The manufacturing and support infrastructure is just not good enought. There is no standardisation across the Kiev 88 brand. It is unlikely that one upgrader will support a camera manuafactured by another and the rumour is that Hartblei will soon stop upgrading Kiev cameras altogether.

 

If you don't need to change film in mid roll then the Exacta 66 is the better choice. Also don't buy a BIG Six (another upgraded Kiev). Your Schneider 60mm and 150mm won't fit because the metering pin fouls the mount.

 

I hope this is helpful.

 

Adrian

[evan_dong1]

Adrian,

 

Are you on the Kiev Forum? There is a recent thread about the Hartblei camera bodies. I am trying to determine to buy it directly from Hartblei with the Hasselblad back compatibility. That way, I can use all of my Hasselblad backs. DOes your Hartblei takes the A-24 backs without any problems? I am waiting to see if I should go forward in regards to the Hartblei body. Otherwise, I will have to sick with my (3) Exakta 66. The only problem is traveling overseas with too any bodies. The Exakta 66 bodies with prism and strap are rather heavy.

[adrian_vincent_twiss]

Evan

 

I can't say. I have never tried fitting an A24 back. From what I have read on the Kiev report they will work. I think I have read the thread you are referring to on the Kiev report. It makes disturbing reading.

 

Adrian

[steven_jones1]

This is my first time on this forum.

I have both a Kiev 60 and an Exacta 66 Model 3. My Exacta is a smooth working camera which I prefered, but it seems to break easier than the Kiev. In fact it is broken at this time. I have taken it on trips and have gotten some exceptional (prize winning) pictures from it using the russian fish eye, flecktagon 50, schneider 60, and zeis 80, 120, and 180 lenses. Can anyone recommed a repair person/shop? The camera store I took it to for repairs (3rd time I had to take it in for repairs in two years) said that they could not repair it (shutter is torn now - they tore it attempting to repair it, and shutter advance is stuck).

I guess I will use the Kiev 60 as my main hobby camera (I also play with a 4X5 Crown Graphic) and see how things go. I would buy a new one (Exacta 66 Model 3) if they did not cost so much (from Cambridge Camera). Too bad the Germans stopped making them.

At least with the Kiev 60 the prism viewer is brighter and larger and you can get two of them (Kiev 60's) for the price of one Exacta 66. So far, the Kiev 60 has produced similiar results to the Exacta (it is not as smooth and does not feel as nice in my hands as the Exacta), but will hopefully be a bit more durable.

-- Steve Jones

[adrian_vincent_twiss]

Steven

 

You could sent it to Pentacon in Dresden. I believe they carry out work on the Exacta 66. Try www.pentacon.de

[greg_w1]

Q = "are Kiev's as bad as people on this forum make out?"

 

A = YES and NO.

 

YES - Inexperienced photographers dont know what to expect from cameras and supper pro's demand a lot more , these sorts of people will not view any Kiev favorably - ever.

 

NO - People with realistic expectations and experience get outstanding value for money with Kiev's by working in with their limitations (weirdness) and wouldn't want for anything more.

 

--for more kiev 60 info http://www.geocities.com/kiev60slr/

 

Kiev60SLR