Considering a second FX Body

[Andrew Garrard]

I meant to say (and haven't tested this to check): if you're in raw + JPEG mode and have raw to one card and JPEG to another, I'm prepared to believe the "shots remaining" would for give an estimate of how many shots the raw card can take before it fills. Take out a card and, since I believe the camera ignores the slot behaviour and writes both formats to the remaining card, I suspect you'll get an estimate of how many shots you can take with the size of both formats estimated.

 

Since JPEGS are typically a lot smaller than raw files, the number of shots that can be stored in raw + JPEG shouldn't be that many fewer than in raw only - the behaviour you saw.

 

I rarely run out of space, so I forget what happens when one card fills - I suspect the camera just starts writing to the other one exclusively, but (since you told it not to write both to the same card) even if it did this, I'd expect the "shots remaining" estimate not to include this option - at least until the camera has filed the first card.

 

I'll now look an idiot if someone tries it and this isn't the behaviour. But you all know I'm an idiot by now anyway...

 

Both jpeg and compressed raw files vary a lot in size according to content - Nikon are certainly conservative. I believe they might increase the expected size estimate with ISO, since recording noise makes image files bigger, but there's still a big difference between a plain blue sky and a colourful and detailed flower bed, for example.

 

Since fairly fast cards (for SD, I've mostly gone SanDisk Extreme Pro 95MB/s except for a recent UHS-II card for my D850, which isn't beneficial to most older bodies) aren't ridiculously expensive, I'd suggest getting the fastest UHS-I cards you can find. I went for speed in the D800 generation because that body freezes after taking a live view photo until the image is stored, but it's useful in general.

 

I've only really had performance problems trying to write raw bursts to an Eye-Fi class 10 card (not really what that card was for, but I was running out of storage at a wedding) - and in that case the buffer took nearly a minute to empty (or it felt like it). I could believe that anything not at least U1 rated might hold up the camera - the resolution difference between 24MP and 36 isn't that great. I did now have a few cheaper SD cards that are slower but they're staying in my D90 and Coolpix A!

 

If you're at higher ISO (meaning the files are bigger) it might be worth switching to 12-bit raw. I always shoot lossless compressed (which is probably the default) - uncompressed is substantially bigger for no quality benefit, and that'll affect write times.

 

Hope that helps - enjoy your shooting!

[Dieter Schaefer]

I rarely run out of space, so I forget what happens when one card fills

Well, it doesn't happen to me often either - but I seem to recall that when my 2nd card filled up (used for backup, not in RAW+JPEG mode), the camera showed card full and refused to take another shot - despite the fact that the 1st card had plenty of space left on it. I'm not going to have the opportunity to test this at this time though.

[keith_burdett]

Well, it doesn't happen to me often either - but I seem to recall that when my 2nd card filled up (used for backup, not in RAW+JPEG mode), the camera showed card full and refused to take another shot - despite the fact that the 1st card had plenty of space left on it. I'm not going to have the opportunity to test this at this time though.

My experience too. Requires speedy menu delve to change setting to overflow for 2nd card. Then remembering to switch back after.

Ok not quite the same, just reread your post. I store jpeg to second card so both fill up but first faster with raws. If first fills i change second card to overflow and keep shooting without the backup till i get to a computer.

[Andrew Garrard]

Ah, silly me. Actually, now you mention it, I saw this on my D850. (I got a cheaper, smaller XQD card while I was awaiting the arrival of my larger, faster one - but had the SD card in the body. I was a bit panicked that I'd filled the 256GB SD card with images while taking burst macro shots of bluebells, but I'd only filled the 32GB XQD.)

 

This is dumb behaviour, and "raw primary, JPEG secondary, + overflow" (so switch to overflow if one card fills) is going on my feature request list as at least a menu option, or maybe just default behaviour. For what it's worth, I have my feature list of doom, it'll just take a little while to write up.

[ben_hutcherson]

I know that card speed USUALLY doesn't make a huge difference, but at the same time the cards I'm using are rated at a pretty miserable 15mb/s(and who knows how fast they actually are)

 

Looking at some benchmarks around the web, it looks like moving up to higher end cards can get me to an actual 30mb/s write speed, which should mean it can write 1-1.5 files/second. Since that nicely correlates with a typical maximum shooting speed for me, that should at least help me avoid digging too deeply into the buffer.

 

I've actually never filled the buffer on my D800, and that includes some time shooting the same way I was on Saturday. I know the buffer is a bit deeper on it, but not appreciably so. When I bought the camera, though, I also invested in some high end CF cards(Sandisk Extreme Pro, Lexar 1066x). I put the RAWs on the CF card, and then use a Sandisk Extreme Pro SD for JPEGs. I have no idea how the write speeds actually benchmark in that camera, but they're plenty fast for me.

 

I'm guessing I maybe need to move up to the Sandisk Extreme range for my D600.

 

BTW, have I mentioned how much I hate SD cards? At least they're a lot less expensive than CF cards.

[Andrew Garrard]

Er, I have a 128GB card, not a 256GB one. I've just scared myself by realising how expensive 256GB XQD and UHS-II SD cards are. CF cards are a little more than SD cards, but not extortionately so where I'm looking. But then UHS-I and UDMA 7 CF technology has been basically unchanged since at least the time the D800 came out, so you'd kind of expect those cards to be relatively affordable by now. UHS-II and XQD are more expensive, both due to being newer and due to economies of scale (there being fewer cards that can take them). If Nikon had doubled down on XQD a bit sooner by putting it in something other than the D4 it might have been a bit cheaper by now - but the D810 was really the only option until the D500 came out. Thank you for making XQD cheaper, D500 shooters!

 

Now if only everyone could agree on CFExpress and Nikon produce some compatibility firmware, things might get cheaper again.

 

But yes, especially with raw going to it, Extreme Pro is your friend. I, on the other hand, have just put a class 4 SD card in my Coolpix-A, and I'll let you know when it drives me nuts!

[Dieter Schaefer]

A Sandisk Extreme Pro SD card will get you about 45MB/s write speed on a D600 (and about 39MB/s on a D800); in a D810 the same card comes up to about 72MB/s (and 84MB/s on a D500) - which indicates that in both cases (D600 and D800) the camera is the limiting factor. Pretty good site on memory card speed: Nikon D600 Fastest SD Cards - Memory card speed tests for D600 - Camera Memory Speed Comparison & Performance tests for SD and CF cards

[ben_hutcherson]

A Sandisk Extreme Pro SD card will get you about 45MB/s write speed on a D600 (and about 39MB/s on a D800); in a D810 the same card comes up to about 72MB/s (and 84MB/s on a D500) - which indicates that in both cases (D600 and D800) the camera is the limiting factor. Pretty good site on memory card speed: Nikon D600 Fastest SD Cards - Memory card speed tests for D600 - Camera Memory Speed Comparison & Performance tests for SD and CF cards

 

Thanks-I'd seen that site, and my finger has been hovering over the "buy" button on B&H for a little while now debating if Pro is worth the extra money and also how many/what size I want. I'm looking at a pair of 64gbs now, but may supplement it with some smaller ones. A pair of 64gb Pros are looking promising now.

 

Did I mention that I don't particularly care for SD cards?

[Dieter Schaefer]

Did I mention that I don't particularly care for SD cards?

Neither do I - which is why I went with 128GB and 256GB ones - they can stay in the camera (D810 and D500 in my case) doing backup duty and hardly ever have to come use, greatly reducing the danger of loosing or breaking them. When I owned the D7100, the SanDisk Extreme Pro was mandatory (on account of the shallow memory buffer). I don't have the fastest CF cards in my D810 - no point since even the SanDisk Extreme Pro SD card can't keep up with the ones I do use (two each of 16GB, 32GB and 64GB). In addition, with CF all but dead, there's no point in spending more than absolutely necessary on those cards.

[Andrew Garrard]

I've always (well, D800 and D810) shot raw to a fast UDMA7 CF card and jpeg to the SD card. While I'm not in the habit of burst shooting with those bodies, I didn't often run out of buffer in that configuration. The CF cards are a little faster than SD, although probably not by as much as the size difference between raw and JPEG. If I were shooting in backup mode, I'd probably be more limited. The one redeeming feature of keeping a D810 as a backup (rather than getting a decent amount for trade-in for it) is that my large stash of CF cards aren't useless; SD cards are more viable, even if most of mine will be a bit slow in a D850 due to only having the one UHS-II card.

[ben_hutcherson]

Alright, two Extreme Pro 64gb cards are on their way.

[Dieter Schaefer]

shot raw to a fast UDMA7 CF card

So do I - just not the fastest CF card (120 MB/s instead of 160MB/s) as the fastest SD card (95MB/s) can't even keep up with the CF cards I use.

I didn't often run out of buffer in that configuration

Neither did I. Can only recall one time when I was taking pictures of an approaching train - tried to get as many "positions" as possible and ran out of camera memory.

[ben_hutcherson]

I'm happy to report that with a pair of Extreme Pros, the camera seems to be able to keep up with my typical max shooting speed in RAW+Jpeg more or less indefinitely. If I get a bit too enthusiastic and get the buffer down to 0, it still only seems to need a quarter second or so before it's ready for another shot. The full buffer seems to clear in 2-3 seconds.