Part 2 of My 6008i was stolen from Rollei-Paepke

[graeme_mitchell]

Well, I'm checking in to give an update about my 6008i kit that was

stolen from Rollei-Paepke. For those of you who missed the first

thread, see it here: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?

msg_id=004MoB

 

I made a number of e-mails over a few weeks, all polite. First I

offered 500 Euros, to which there was no reply. So I offered it

again, and there was no reply. So I contacted Mr. Scholz at the

Rollei factory, and he called Mr. Paepke for me, so I finally got a

reply that really didn't say much except they're responsible and I

should disclose my offer. I made my offer again, and I added that I

would also accept that they compensate me in funds for what it would

cost to replace my camera minus the 1000 Euros. I thought $2000 was

fair.

 

Finally I receieved a reply. It went something like this: They said

yes, my camera was worth around 3000 Euros, but they estimate my

repairs would have been 1250 (notice it jumped up from 1000), so they

can offer me 1500 max.

 

Maybe my math is off, but isn't 3000-1250 = 1750?

 

They finished the e-mail by saying all further e-mails would be in

German.

 

So that pretty much finished that. Suffice to say, I accepted the

1500 Euros. I haven't actually received it yet, but it's in the

process of transfer.

 

I wouldn't buy a Rollei again. It's just been to shoddy despite the

great lenses. So I'm debating whether to dump the funds into my ever

increasing digital pot, or whether to shop around for a used Mamiya

7II or a Fuji 690.

 

That's the update.

[bob_salomon]

Something is missing here.

 

Where are you located? If you are not in Germay why would you send a camera to an independent service center in Germany yourself and then blame a manufacturer?

 

Just curious. In the U.S. if the authorized service center can't do the repair the US service center sends the camera to Europe. Not the customer.

 

I can understand your frustration but can not understand why this occured if you are not living in Germany.

[graeme_mitchell]

I am in the U.S. I sent the camera to Germany to get it repaired b/c it wasn't under warranty and, as I mentioned, my dealings with Marflex have been less than stellar. So I asked around and people said ship it to either the Rollie factory or to Rollei-Paepke. I contacted them both and Paepke was the first to reply, so I sent it to them. I don't think sending a Rollei to Germany for repair is unheard of. Many people swear by it. I mean, why else would I take the extra effort to send it to them?

 

And as for blaming the manufacturer?...I'm not sure if I implied this, but Rollei was nothing but great and I never blamed them for anything. Why would I?. It was Rollei-Paepke I blame, and I have every right to since they were responsible for my equipment which was stolen from their shop.

[richardcook]

It's unfortunate that things ended up this way. Once you have your camera in hand, I would write a summary letter to the Rollei people and explain what the outcome was. I'd also send a copy of this letter to Shutterbug and the other camera magazines and put a copy up on each of the photographic sites on the web, including the section on user experiences at photo.net

 

This is rather bad news because I have been looking quite closely at the Rollei AF. But your experience puts me off. For something that costs more than any consumer durable except a car, one should be able to able to obtain reliable, responsible service and the manfacturer's inability to produce assured service for its cameras pretty much takes it out of the competition.

 

Thanks for posting this on the net and sharing the results. It is particularly helpful to those about to buy photographic equipment and your unfortunate experience is valuable. It is small consolation, I am sure, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

[bob_salomon]

The Rollei distributor is the repair center for the 6008 not Marflex and "asking around" is not the best way to get answers. Especially if they lead you to ship to a foreign country to a repair center you do not know.

 

While we have not been involved with Rollei since 1998 it bothers us to see that people are indicating that they might not consider a camera because of something beyond the control of the factory.

 

Your unfortunate experience has nothing to do with the factory, the quality of the camera or the quality of service in the US. It simply reflects on a poor decision by an owner to send a valuable piece of equipment to a repair shop that should never have been involved in the first place.

 

if you have a problem (assuming of course that you do not have a grey market camera) you simply contact the distributor to solve the problem.

 

If the camera was grey then the dealer you bought it from was the proper place to send it.

 

Lastly did you have the camera covered by insurance?

[bob_cook2]

Strange..........

 

This is an INSURANCE issue and no doubt there was no insurance on the camera. It can happen to anyone with any product.... thus it is prudent to carry insurance on any valuable item.

[bob_salomon]

"This is an INSURANCE issue and no doubt there was no insurance on the camera. It can happen to anyone with any product.... thus it is prudent to carry insurance on any valuable item"

 

Amen. It is an insurance matter from 2 ends. The owners and the repair shops. But the owner might create an exception by bypassing the normal repair and service channels to ship to a foreign country. It is quite different if you are in a foreign country and are personally robbed while there. I speak from some experience as a floater policy covered a theft from our car on a trip of over $25,000.00 in camera equipment in France.

 

It took a few months of fighting with the insurance company but they paid off in full.

[graeme_mitchell]

Bob S., I appreciate your defense of Rollei, and my choice to not deal with them further is just that, my choice. The first time one of our Rollies broke I contacted Rollei U.S.A. and they put me in contact with Marflex (as they were the contracted repair facility for Rollei U.S. at the time (this has changed recently though I think). In the end, b/c of otehr matters, it was a huge pain. But my case might have been and exception. Because of this, I will in the future purchase equipment that is more supported in my area (west coast), like Hassy or Mamiya. Rollei has goreous equipment, but for me it was to much of a hassle considering the cost.

 

Now I am unclear as to why you're so adament against private repair shops. When a camera isn't under warranty, I think many people take camera to 3rd parties to have them fixed. But maybe I am wrong, if so I'm having trouble learning my lesson. (I'm not going to bother touching on your distrust in the viability of word of mouth advice and others opinions, or else I wouldn't be able to trust a thing you're saying:)

 

And, lastly, it is an insurance issue, for Paepke's insurance. My gear was covered under homeowners, but why should they cover the expense when the camera was stolen from Peapke who was liable for the equipment at time of theft.

 

I'm going to stop now. I was just trying to post my experiences. Maybe I acted stupidly or am an idiot, but it's a tricky case, and that's why I thought it was a worthwhile story to tell.

[bob_salomon]

" I appreciate your defense of Rollei"

 

I am not defending Rollei.

 

I am concerned as a supplier because people are casting questions at the product based on your decision to by pass the proper sources and, on your own, send a caamera to a service that you picked.

 

No one at the factory or at the US distributor asked you to do this.

 

No defense should be necessary for any manufacturer under these conditions.

 

The sad fact is you would still have the camera if you had sent it to the proper repair service in the first place.

 

As for insurance. Why carry it if you don't use it when you have a need for it?

[bob_salomon]

"against private repair shop"

 

I am not against private repair shops and I did not suggest I was. We use one all the time.

 

I am against repair shops that are not properly trained on the product they are asked to repair. I am against someone in the US simply sending a product to a foreign country when proper and effective service is available here.

 

Additionally it is far less trouble to send something to any place in the US, from the US, then to a foreign country.

[richardcook]

I find the photographer's comments much more persuasive than those of the supplier. The nature of service / maintenance for high technology equipment is well understood: poor quality service dooms an expensive product to be bypassed if there are acceptable alternatives. Arguing that the photographer is somehow at fault for not having or not using insurance rather misses the mark; the problem arose because the authorized repair outfit (1) did not secure the camera and (2) failed to make good on the loss it created.

 

Higher quality manufacturing companies, especially those making expensive, complicated products, understand as part of their business plan that it is in their interest to see that there is competent and competitive service available. They know that if the service is bad, the product loses value and if the service is really bad, the product dies. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

 

To see this, simply flip the story around: Imagine how we would now be writing if the experience had been a good one. What would we be saying if Graeme had gotten a new camera or a refurbished one with a letter of apology for the delay and agro?

 

It is surprising that Graeme has been treated in this way but I am grateful to have had the benefit of it and I appreciate his candor and careful recitation of the events.

[david_henderson]

It might be an issue of insurance, but whose insurance? I'd expect any reputable repairer to carry insurance which covers loss or damage to customer's property whilst in their care. This would render it unnecessary to haggle in this small-minded and petty way with their customer over value. Indeed any company with any sort of stature and standards would pay out the customer without debate and carry out their haggling with their own insurance company. Rollei-Paepke emerge from this as small-minded, grasping, and mindful only of their own self-interest.

 

If I were you I'd make sure that Rollei, at the highest level, understood the treatment you have received and the effect it has on their reputation, whether fairly or not, because a company that calls itself Rollei-Paepke sounds very attached. You never know, they may choose to intervene, and if they don't well I guess you've learned something about them too.

 

The question of whether you should have sent it there to start with is a complete red herring. Rollei-Paepke accepted your equipment for repair and they must reasonably be responsible it whilst in their care.

[bob_salomon]

"the problem arose because the authorized repair outfit"

 

That is the whole point.

 

there are authorized service centers in the country where he lives. He decided not to use any of them. Or the US supplier.

 

He chose to ship it overseas to an private repair center in Germany.

 

A factory does not bear responsibility for this. The repair service does.

 

The lost camera should be reported to the insurance company, the insurance company paysd the claim, less deductible, and - if they elect to - the insurance company goes after the people who lost the property in the first place.

 

As far as I am concerned the owner should not be talking to the repair company for a replacement value less repair cost. He should be telling them he wants a replacement camera. Period.

 

The factory has nothing to do with this and this bears no reflection on the quality of the product. Anything can break. That does not mean there isn't a repairman who is fully qualified to repair it closer to home.

[trooper]

Graeme,

 

Do a bit of research on "Bailee" insurance. This is the term that describes insurance carried by repair shops or others entrusted with temporary holding of others' property. This is a very common clause in American liability coverage packages and is likely in place in German commerce..... don't know, but just guessing.

[al_kaplan1]

If you carry insurance, even your homeowners insurance, contact your agent. It may be covered or they might be in a position to help you collect from the German insurance company used by the repair place. If you are covered your insurance company is going to attempt to collect against the shop and/or it's insurance company.

[jerry_lehrer]

Graham

 

You are being screwed around royally by those officious people in Germany. They hold the upper hand,as they have, or had your camera

and can claim anything they want.

 

I doubt that the Rollei factory would treat you that way. I know

that Marflex would not treat you in such a cavalier way.

 

I will inform all my Rollei friends about this, but I doubt that

any of them would be so stupid as to send their Rolleis to a dealer

rather than a well known repair station.

 

Someone there must still hate Americans.

 

What does your insurance company say?

 

Jerry

[andre_noble4]

Graeme, your experience with the Germans reminds me when I was travelling to Stockholm, Sweden on an overnight train on a $600 monthly Eurail pass. At 2 in the morning, the conductor noticed that my pass had expired by 2 hours, and tossed me off the train at the next stop, (despite my protest that I was out of money and would miss my return flight to States out of Stockholm the next morning). I was not only in shock - but freezing cold as well!

[kelly_flanigan1]

I bought a used Rollei A110 in the mid 1970's; that was broken for 45 bucks. I sent it to Professional Camera Repair; where Marty F. said it would be better for Rollei the fix it. Rollei did for 68 bucks... It was interesting for the amn himself to pass up a repair....Rollei did a good repair job.......I'm on Bob S's side on this thread....

[stephen hazelton]

Graeme, you may not want to bother fighting it any more, but sounds to me like you are definitely in the right and getting screwed by the repair shop. Is this repair shop like a Walmart where people can just walk in and take things? You would think with a major item like this being stolen, that it was quite likely stolen by an employee. Who knows? Maybe the business itself is just crooked. If they're willing to short-change you on the replacement issue, they may be just as willing to lie about it being stolen in the first place- it might be setting right there on the desk as the guy is talking to you. Definitely worth a follow up or two to make sure that several people at the repair shop know about it, to make sure you're not dealing with the guy that did the stealing! Let Rollei know what is going on with their products/ service places. Contact any German photo magazines you can locate, let them know the story. Send a letter off to the local police, let them know- it would be MOST interesting if a repair shop had never reported a multi-thousand dollar theft! It might also be very interesting to learn how much other stuff is "stolen" from this shop?

[graeme_mitchell]

Again, I'm not really trying to take sides, just trying to relate a merchant customer story that is complicated. I beleive Rollei-Paepke is not only a reputable dealer, but also a very recognized repair station for the 6008 cameras (such stations are far and few between). If I did not believe this, I would not have sent my gear there. Maybe I'm wrong on this though. Maybe their the Brdwy photo of Germany.

 

Now, if I had to speculate, I'd say my gear was stolen from them and their insurance, for whatever reason, would not cover it, or their deductable was $5,000, or something. So they tried to cover their losses. In such a situation I personally, as a business owner, would have done everything to please the customer and forget my losses for the time being. But that's just me.

 

I don't think the 1500 Euros is terrible, but it sure leaves a sour taste in my mouth. More importantly, though, is that I was just treated poorly and pushed around.

 

I plan on writing a short polite letter to Dr. Zettel (?) the pres. of Rollei, and I plan on in the future buying only equipment from my local pro shops so I can deal with them directly: Mamiya, Hassy, Nikon, etc.

[fwstutterheim]

Graeme, I still fail to see why you have not made a claim with your own home owners insurance company and let them do all the negociating. They are very good at it. I am not familiar with German law, but in Europe repairers and other temporary holders of your stuff are not always insured against loss. They have denied responsability for loss in their "small print". They feel they do not have to be insured because they expect their customers to be insured. Usually the customer´s policy covers loss at repairers. Off course a decent repairer will be uncomfortable after a(n uncovered?) theft from their shop and will to try put things right. This might explain the horse trading you got into. For all of us the lesson to learn from your unfortunate experience is: get your stuff insured and do not rely on others to have it covered. I hope you will stay with the Rollei brand. Good luck.

[dermot_conlan4]

Interesting comment from Bob S. on the customer not sending

equipment to Germany for repairs. I recently sent a Linhof 617s

finder to Linhof in Germany for repair on the advice of Marflex,

they told me they did not repair this item and to contact Linhof

HQ in Germany. I had to send the finder to thier service dept,

which I did, and let me tell ya it's an experience.

[bob_salomon]

Klaus-Dieter Koss is the Managing Director for Rollei in Germany. Jeff Karp is President of the US Rollei distributor.

[ike k]

Hi graeme,

 

 

Sorry about your lost and it is hard to experience such things like that but if i was in your position, i would think about it twice before i pay for the price they asked, and unfortunately for 1500 euros you could get a brand new 6008 from Hongkong vendor with the price about the same.So basically they f**ked you up, and it is terrible things.That's why i sold my rollei since many horror stories about this service things from rollei USA, and sorry for rollei merchants, you are sucks!!!!.Better get your camera back and don't pay anything and get new one incase you still trust rollei but i don't think so right?, just sell your other rollei gear before it's too late unless Rollei USA will do something about this poor service of them.Ciaaooo

 

 

 

Ike Kamaruddin

[frank_bunnik]

I am sorry this happened to you and I agree that you should give your comments here. I once had a brandnew Rollei 6003 (the current model) that broke down under warranty within one week after purchase. It was fixed in about 3 weeks, a whole electronic circuit had to be replaced. Within 3 months a secondhand 150 broke down. It was time to get rid of the Rollei, back to Hasselblad. No integrated meter and other stuff but a camera system that has never let me down, not once, not even 1 single jam.

 

No more Rollei for me, never again, not even a 6008 AF if I could afford it. I have no trust at all in Rollei products.