Experienced photographer.. want to get into Medium Format

[Ray S]

I have been scanning the 645 negatives at 2400 dpi and have not timed it but I guess about 1 minute per frame. It gives me a file larger then I can print out on my Canon printer (13x17 max).. I am happy with the scan quality but I have not scanned a 35mm negative so far. I have been shooting the Mamiya since I got it. My V600 did not come with elements however I bought it from Freestyle if that makes a difference. Anyway I like the scanner. It has a few quirks that are not real great but I will get accustomed to it.

 

Thanks for your insights Ross. I’m also happy with the V550 thus far and I’m only scanning at 4800 dpi which likely outperforms the current film I’m using. J

I didn't see this question earlier.

 

I mentioned Nikkor lenses for the earlier 6x6 Bronica series cameras. With one exception(the 13,5cm) these are purpose-designed MF lenses. The 135mm was designed for the Nikon RFs using an add-on mirror box. There is an adapter to use the rangefinder lens on the early series Bronicas, but it is rare and tends to be expensive. Unless I'm missing something, I also can't find a way to mount it on an S2a. To add to that, the lens in the Bronica mount is MUCH less expensive than in the Nikon RF mount.

 

One consideration with any lens is the image circle size. Basically the lens has to be able to "project" an image circle that is larger than at least covers the film and ideally is a bit larger(image circle does increase at longer focus distances and at smaller apertures). This is the no different from using an EF-S/DX lens on a 35mm or full frame digital camera-the lens will vignette severely. The 135mm Nikkor just happens to have a large enough circle to cover 6x6, but it's considered the worst performing lens for that camera. The image circle size is one of the reasons why f/2.8 is generally the fastest you'll find for 645 or 6x6(compare the fact that f/1.4 is common for a 50mm 35mm lens, while some go as large as f/1.2. Even mild telephotos like the Canon 80mm and 135mm can be quite fast also). 4x5 lenses tend to be even slower, with a "normal" 150mm lens for 4x5 often being f/4.5 or so. Admittedly this isn't a big deal since LF is almost always done from a tripod(good luck hand holding anything other than a press camera) and many landscape photographers consider f/22 or so to be an absolute minimum aperture(a lot of lenses will go to f/45 or f/64). The various Nikon and Canon tilt-shift lenses are MF lenses mounted on the T/S mount, but they're a lot more expensive than a 75/80/90mm lens for any MF system.

 

Offhand, I don't know of any 6x7 cameras that use Nikkor lenses(or have them available) but then I've been wrong before and I'm sure will be again. The only common Nikkor lenses I know of are the Bronica mount ones I mentioned above, and they are a bit of an odd duck even though they are excellent(with the exception of the 135).

 

As said, usually you are "married" to one particular brand of lenses when you buy into a system, and given the target market for MF cameras they all tend to be pretty good. We've had a discussion going in another thread about who made the lenses for the later Bronica cameras, as all are branded Zenzanon(the cameras are all marked Zenza, which I think was the parent company). I seem to recall there being one Zeiss lens made for the SQ system, but then I might be dreaming or confusing it with something else. Mamiya cameras use Mamiya-Sekor lenses, which have quite a good reputation. There are also standard pairings that aren't necessarily camera branded, but none the less are associated with the brand. The classic example of this is the Hasselblad V system where virtually all(if not all) lenses are Zeiss. F&H(Rolleiflex, Rolleicord) used both Schneider and Zeiss lenses, albeit on the later 2.8 series 'Flexes the Zeiss lenses are far more common.

 

If you use a press or technical camera, you can pretty much stick any lens on it you want provided that the lens board is large enough and you have enough bellows travel to focus to infinity(can be an issue both on very short and very long lenses). If you use a Crown Graphic(one of the most common/popular press cameras) you can get the board quite close to the film. The Speed Graphic limits you somewhat as the focal plane shutter limits how far back the bellows can travel vs. the Crown. A common shipping lens on these was a 90mm Kodak Ektar, which is a bit on the wide side for 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 although not dramatically so. Many that you find will still have that lens. "Modern" view camera lens makers basically come down to Schneider, Rodenstock, Nikon, and Fuji. All tend to be excellent.

The one I saw was a Nikkor P-Mount lens which you actually answered in my other post. Thanks a bunch though!

 

My two cents...many will disagree (but that is OK)...

Your about 20 years too late, unless your considering Medium Format digital. Sure, there are plenty of used MF SLR's out there and many have finally become affordable.

The problem is there is no more 220 film and processing the few films that are left can get expensive, a first rate scanner that will give you a scan that comes close to a 36mp DSLR will cost you more than the camera. If your serious about venturing into Medium Format, don't buy into a dead system. Stick with Hasselblad or Mamiya 645 that will accept a digital back. I love and collect Bronica cameras and would recommend any of them in a heartbeat but I have a full working darkroom and a good scanner. But I shoot them for nostalgia and fun. It gets expensive compared to picking up my DSLR and firing away. I'm a semi-retired pro who has used MF for 40 years.

If you process your own film, go for one and have fun with it.

 

Thanks Rick. I’m not that worried about the cost of processing film at this point. I’m not shooting thousands of images as I would at a sporting event or a wedding with my dslr system. Plus I’m already developing both color negative, and b&w 35mm film at home (Paterson tank system).

I’m looking at an MF camera for fun and to compliment/extend my 35mm film rangefinders, dslr’s, & fuji digital ICLS cameras. May as well work towards rounding out the skill set. Next I may even consider exploring large format although admittedly not being able to easily develop large format film at home is a deterrent.

Thanks again!

Ray

[rossb]

You can purchase developing tanks for 4x5 home use. Freestyle has one that requires 16 ounces of developer and will process 5 sheets of film. I think it's $85.00. Other tanks out there also. The V600 is not set up for 4x5 so a jump up would be required for a considerable cost. I am sticking with medium format myself. I can carry it around and shoot it economically as long as I do not shoot to often. Arista 400 in 120 film is $3.69 a roll. I just ordered 10 rolls of it from Freestyle and it should be around tomorrow I think.

[AlanKlein]

I shoot an RB67 and scan with a V600 but don't print much. I have a pro lab develop for me. You can get an RB67 setup pretty cheap, a few hundred dollars. I bought mine and my 4 lenses before digital so I lost about 95% of what I originally paid. If you don't like film, you can always resell it and it won't cost much. But it's heavy to carry. Also, you'll need a tripod. The rotating back is nice as you can quickly switch from landscape to portrait format. Here's some of my RB67 shots. Good luck.

 

Search: rb67 | Flickr

[ben_hutcherson]

You can purchase developing tanks for 4x5 home use. Freestyle has one that requires 16 ounces of developer and will process 5 sheets of film. I think it's $85.00. Other tanks out there also. The V600 is not set up for 4x5 so a jump up would be required for a considerable cost. I am sticking with medium format myself. I can carry it around and shoot it economically as long as I do not shoot to often. Arista 400 in 120 film is $3.69 a roll. I just ordered 10 rolls of it from Freestyle and it should be around tomorrow I think.

 

There are a couple of different 4x5 daylight tanks around. Yankee makes one, although I've heard not so good thinks about it. I started developing with a Yankee Clipper, and while it's a decent enough tank that I actually still use occasionally(like when I was processing E6 this weekend), it has its quirks. One of the big issues with both the Clipper and the 4x5 tank is that they can't be agitated by inversion-on the Clipper you spin the reel, while I think you have to just slosh the 4x5 tank back and forth.

 

 

If I can draw a parallel to another hobby, reloading ammunition, Yankee products are a lot like Lee reloading equipment. They are inexpensive and will get the job done, but have their quirks and sometimes go about it in unusual ways.

 

 

One of the other daylight tanks on the market is a Patterson reel designed to take 4x5 sheets. It fits in what would conventionally be called a 4 roll tank(4 rolls of 35mm), so needs a full 32oz of chemistry.

 

 

The "new kid on the block" so to speed is the SP-455. It's about the same price as a Patterson tank. It is all plastic, but quite durable. There are two hangers in it, each of which will hold two sheets of 4x5. It's incredibly easy to load and is water tight so can be be inverted. It's what I use, and I've been extremely happy.

 

 

You can get an RB67 setup pretty cheap, a few hundred dollars. I bought mine and my 4 lenses before digital so I lost about 95% of what I originally paid.

 

 

I've become really fond of the RB67 over the past few weeks. I've made a couple of purchases in the system:

 

 

1. Pro-SD with two Pro-S 6x7 backs and a 65mm K/L for $350(bought on the LFP forum)

2. Pro-S that I unearthed in a local camera shop(Where'd that come from?). I'd gone in to buy a 127mm pre-C lens, and dug up this camera. I bought the camera with the metering prism attached, the 127mm, and a 645 Pro-SD back for $200. The Pro-SD backs are desirable because they use a labyrinth rather than foam as light seals.

3. A 90mm K/L and 250mm C for $240 from KEH(they ran a 1-day 20% sale on all Mamiya stuff last week)

4. When I get around to buying it, the local shop has a 150mm soft focus for $100.

 

I did buy foam kits from Jon Goodman to redo the mirror dampers, RB seals, and back seals. I bought a bunch of stuff from him, but I think the mirror dampers are $15, the RB is $10, and the film backs $12

 

All told, that's a pretty comprehensive system that I've assembled in about a month and for less than $1K. The RB67 truly is a special camera and probably the most versatile you can get(aside from the great lens selection available for the Hasselblad). It's even moderately hand-holdable although even with a good strap it gets HEAVY pretty quickly. Focusing close is a bit awkward handheld doe to the bellows.

[Wilmarco Imaging]

Ray S

 

Re: The comment on lens range. Have a look at the RB67. The lens range is from 37mm-500mm and includes fisheye, macro, and soft focus models, along with excellent prime lenses.

 

For lenses longer than 500mm on 6x7, I can't recall ever seeing an image captured with such a focal length on this film format.

 

This is a great landscape, portrait, nature and still life camera. I take it anywhere without hesitation. Lots of accessories and solid build quality. Good used market.

 

Take a look at the Pro SD model, it is the most recent and has a few nice upgrades from the earlier models.

[ben_hutcherson]

Take a look at the Pro SD model, it is the most recent and has a few nice upgrades from the earlier models.

 

I have one each of a Pro S and Pro SD, and honestly in real-world use I don't use the added features of the Pro-SD. One of the biggest changes was widening the throat to the same size as the RZ67, something which allows you to mount a couple of lenses that won't fit on earlier bodies.

 

 

It's also worth mentioned that there's an adapter ring which takes up this extra space in the throat.

 

 

 

All K/L lenses originally came with it, and it's one of the things I make sure is included if I buy a K/L lens. As you can see, it's really a pretty simple part and I suspect that you could turn one out if you have a lathe(I'm going to give it a shot when I get a chance). I've not gone looking for them, but presumably you can get them separately from the lenses if you want to use a pre-K/L lens on a Pro-SD. The ring also has to be removed to mount on a Pro-S or earlier.

 

 

In the real world, I've not had any issues with not using the ring on a Pro-SD, but it's something to keep in mind. Since I only have two K/L lenses and two adapter rings, if I'm out with the camera and carting multiple lenses I will often carry the Pro-S so that I don't have to mess with them. I guess I should get some more of them so that I have one for every lens and don't have to worry about swapping them in the field. Granted it's not a huge deal, but it's also a bit of annoyance and can be a three handed job if you don't have something on which to set the lenses down.

 

Of course, I also often pick my lenses and will either only have one mounted on the camera or will just carry one additional one. Even the 90mm and 127mm are huge(without putting them on a scale, I'd say as heavy as something like a Nikon F2 or Canon F-1 with a 50mm 1.4) and they only get heavier past those focal lengths. I could lift weights with the 250mm sitting on my desk now. The bodies weigh plenty also, and the metered prism I have is right at 2lbs on its own. I can travel lighter with my Speed Graphic, a couple of lenses, a half dozen film holders, and Tiltall tripod.

[richard_]

Well there's pros and cons to every camera, format etc. - that's why most people who get deep into MF usually have 2 or more cameras. In any event, personally I would choose one based on condition and easy of operation in the field.

Concerning 4x5, a couple of years ago I switched from trays to the MOD54. Will process up to 6 sheets and is as easy to use as processing 120 film.

[Ray S]

You can purchase developing tanks for 4x5 home use. Freestyle has one that requires 16 ounces of developer and will process 5 sheets of film. I think it's $85.00. Other tanks out there also. The V600 is not set up for 4x5 so a jump up would be required for a considerable cost. I am sticking with medium format myself. I can carry it around and shoot it economically as long as I do not shoot to often. Arista 400 in 120 film is $3.69 a roll. I just ordered 10 rolls of it from Freestyle and it should be around tomorrow I think.

 

Thanks Ross. I'd probably have them professionally scanned if I ever went to large format but it's good to know they can at least be developed in-home.

 

I shoot an RB67 and scan with a V600 but don't print much. I have a pro lab develop for me. You can get an RB67 setup pretty cheap, a few hundred dollars. I bought mine and my 4 lenses before digital so I lost about 95% of what I originally paid. If you don't like film, you can always resell it and it won't cost much. But it's heavy to carry. Also, you'll need a tripod. The rotating back is nice as you can quickly switch from landscape to portrait format. Here's some of my RB67 shots. Good luck.

 

Search: rb67 | Flickr

Thanks Alan! I read about the RB/RZ-67's size and weight with lens & film back. In fact the Bronica GS-1 I'm considering is touted as being both smaller and lighter but from what I can see only marginally so. So all of that said, I've decided that carrying a tripod (and a good one at that) will become mandatory which is no problem as I already have several Manfrotto tripods all in good condition which I've purchased & userd over the years.

 

The Hasselblad V-System (500, 503c/m, etc.) is the other camera I'm seriously considering. It's 6x6 which is fine but it's also lighter and of course has a future option for a digital back should I have a few thousand burning a hole in my pocket! ;)

 

It's what i was originally leaning to early on before I went gung-ho with my research into every major size, brand, & lens available for each.

 

As for price, Hasselblads I'm looking at are only marginally more expensive unless I go with their 30mm or 40mm lenses which are $2-3k each.

 

There are a couple of different 4x5 daylight tanks around. Yankee makes one, although I've heard not so good thinks about it. I started developing with a Yankee Clipper, and while it's a decent enough tank that I actually still use occasionally(like when I was processing E6 this weekend), it has its quirks. One of the big issues with both the Clipper and the 4x5 tank is that they can't be agitated by inversion-on the Clipper you spin the reel, while I think you have to just slosh the 4x5 tank back and forth.

 

If I can draw a parallel to another hobby, reloading ammunition, Yankee products are a lot like Lee reloading equipment. They are inexpensive and will get the job done, but have their quirks and sometimes go about it in unusual ways.

 

One of the other daylight tanks on the market is a Patterson reel designed to take 4x5 sheets. It fits in what would conventionally be called a 4 roll tank(4 rolls of 35mm), so needs a full 32oz of chemistry.

 

The "new kid on the block" so to speed is the SP-455. It's about the same price as a Patterson tank. It is all plastic, but quite durable. There are two hangers in it, each of which will hold two sheets of 4x5. It's incredibly easy to load and is water tight so can be be inverted. It's what I use, and I've been extremely happy.

 

I've become really fond of the RB67 over the past few weeks. I've made a couple of purchases in the system:

 

1. Pro-SD with two Pro-S 6x7 backs and a 65mm K/L for $350(bought on the LFP forum)

2. Pro-S that I unearthed in a local camera shop(Where'd that come from?). I'd gone in to buy a 127mm pre-C lens, and dug up this camera. I bought the camera with the metering prism attached, the 127mm, and a 645 Pro-SD back for $200. The Pro-SD backs are desirable because they use a labyrinth rather than foam as light seals.

3. A 90mm K/L and 250mm C for $240 from KEH(they ran a 1-day 20% sale on all Mamiya stuff last week)

4. When I get around to buying it, the local shop has a 150mm soft focus for $100.

 

I did buy foam kits from Jon Goodman to redo the mirror dampers, RB seals, and back seals. I bought a bunch of stuff from him, but I think the mirror dampers are $15, the RB is $10, and the film backs $12

 

All told, that's a pretty comprehensive system that I've assembled in about a month and for less than $1K. The RB67 truly is a special camera and probably the most versatile you can get(aside from the great lens selection available for the Hasselblad). It's even moderately hand-holdable although even with a good strap it gets HEAVY pretty quickly. Focusing close is a bit awkward handheld doe to the bellows.

 

Thanks for the additional Insights Ben. The speed at which you've acquired your kit is impressive.

 

As for the weight issues you mentioned, they are something I'm keenly aware of as I may want to bring it on a long-ish hike. While it won't necessarily be strapped around my neck while hiking, it may likely be in a backpack so the weight is still a very real factor as is the size of either the RB67 or RZ67 as I understand they're both pretty large and hefty.

 

It's another reason (albeit, not that much so) that I'm also considering a Hasselblad V-System.

 

Ray S

Re: The comment on lens range. Have a look at the RB67. The lens range is from 37mm-500mm and includes fisheye, macro, and soft focus models, along with excellent prime lenses.

 

For lenses longer than 500mm on 6x7, I can't recall ever seeing an image captured with such a focal length on this film format.

 

This is a great landscape, portrait, nature and still life camera. I take it anywhere without hesitation. Lots of accessories and solid build quality. Good used market.

 

Take a look at the Pro SD model, it is the most recent and has a few nice upgrades from the earlier models.

Thanks William. I gotcha on that. I have been as I noted a bit earlier.

 

I have one each of a Pro S and Pro SD, and honestly in real-world use I don't use the added features of the Pro-SD. One of the biggest changes was widening the throat to the same size as the RZ67, something which allows you to mount a couple of lenses that won't fit on earlier bodies.

 

 

It's also worth mentioned that there's an adapter ring which takes up this extra space in the throat.

 

[ATTACH=full]1186606[/ATTACH]

 

 

All K/L lenses originally came with it, and it's one of the things I make sure is included if I buy a K/L lens. As you can see, it's really a pretty simple part and I suspect that you could turn one out if you have a lathe(I'm going to give it a shot when I get a chance). I've not gone looking for them, but presumably you can get them separately from the lenses if you want to use a pre-K/L lens on a Pro-SD. The ring also has to be removed to mount on a Pro-S or earlier.

 

 

In the real world, I've not had any issues with not using the ring on a Pro-SD, but it's something to keep in mind. Since I only have two K/L lenses and two adapter rings, if I'm out with the camera and carting multiple lenses I will often carry the Pro-S so that I don't have to mess with them. I guess I should get some more of them so that I have one for every lens and don't have to worry about swapping them in the field. Granted it's not a huge deal, but it's also a bit of annoyance and can be a three handed job if you don't have something on which to set the lenses down.

 

Of course, I also often pick my lenses and will either only have one mounted on the camera or will just carry one additional one. Even the 90mm and 127mm are huge(without putting them on a scale, I'd say as heavy as something like a Nikon F2 or Canon F-1 with a 50mm 1.4) and they only get heavier past those focal lengths. I could lift weights with the 250mm sitting on my desk now. The bodies weigh plenty also, and the metered prism I have is right at 2lbs on its own. I can travel lighter with my Speed Graphic, a couple of lenses, a half dozen film holders, and Tiltall tripod.

 

Hi Ben, That's pretty interesting. I wonder if it may also be 3d printable as there are quite a few online 3d printer houses that can print in metal. Just not sure how well it would hold up to being used for this application. May be worth exploring?

 

Well there's pros and cons to every camera, format etc. - that's why most people who get deep into MF usually have 2 or more cameras. In any event, personally I would choose one based on condition and easy of operation in the field.

Concerning 4x5, a couple of years ago I switched from trays to the MOD54. Will process up to 6 sheets and is as easy to use as processing 120 film.

Thanks Richard. I'm definitely considering all options. I may eventually have multiple systems as you suggests although my next camera may be a 6x12 or wider if I can find one that's "affordable." as that format sounds very intriguing.

[Ray S]

Again, thanks so much for everyone's insights.

Currently I'm looking at...

 

Hasselbald V-System w/ a 50mm wide angle lens and possibly a longer lens w/ extension tubes to focus more closely for any macro subjects.

Bronica GS-1 w/ a 50mm wide angle lens and a 110mm macro.

 

Alternatively I'm also considering...

Pentax 67 w/ a 40mm wide angle lens & a 135mm macro although this camera is both large & heavy

Mamiya RB67/RZ67 w/ a 45mm or 50mm wide angle & a 140mm macro although like the Pentax 67 these two are also large and heavy.

 

For developing MF film, I'll continue to use the Paterson tank system I already have as I'm quite happy with the results I've been getting so far.

 

So, that said, I'll mull this over a bit more over the next couple of weeks before I fully decide.

 

Thanks again for everyone's insights.

[c_watson1]

Your choices are fine but I'd suggest passing on the GS-1. Compared to Bronica's 645 and 6x6 systems, their 6x7 entry was a bit of a dud. Poor seller with a shallow used market. Unless you can get one of the rare rotary finders, flipping between landscape and portrait orientations is fraught, much as it is with the otherwise great Pentax 67.

The RB/RZ systems are arguably the most negative real estate for the buck. The rotating back seals the deal for me. Their much-cited weight is not gawdawful and the huge negatives more than offset their plus-size bulk.

[ben_hutcherson]

Thanks for the additional Insights Ben. The speed at which you've acquired your kit is impressive.

 

As for the weight issues you mentioned, they are something I'm keenly aware of as I may want to bring it on a long-ish hike. While it won't necessarily be strapped around my neck while hiking, it may likely be in a backpack so the weight is still a very real factor as is the size of either the RB67 or RZ67 as I understand they're both pretty large and hefty.

 

It's another reason (albeit, not that much so) that I'm also considering a Hasselblad V-System.

 

I had the motivation, a bit of cash, and had the right pieces come along at the right price. Granted it wasn't as cheap as the S2a/C where I walked out of the store with everything(5 lenses, both bodies, extension tubes, and almost every other accessory made for the system all in a massive metal case for $300).

 

Still, I feel like I've put together a fairly comprehensive kit without spending a ton of money. A similar Hasselblad kit(which I know isn't directly comparable) might even hit 5 figures when you factor in the wide and long lenses.

 

It is MASSIVE, though. Here's a Pro-SD with a 6x7 back and 250mm lens

 

 

And here's a 90mm on an RB67 next to a 75mm on a Bronica S2a. The Bronica lens is shorter as it goes pretty far back into the camera, but it's otherwise similar in size to a Hasseblad. The SQ uses a more conventional focusing mechanism and the lenses are comparable in size to Hasselblad lenses. Still, though, you can see that the difference in size is dramatic.

 

 

 

While you've probably figured out from my comments on here that I'm a BIG Bronica fan, the GS-1 would not be my choice for a 6x7 camera. The cameras themselves are quite uncommon, and accessories even more so. By contrast, there's TONS of stuff out there for both the RB and the Pentax 67.

[rossb]

Good information Ben on the 4x5 tanks.

[Ray S]

$300 for all of that?!? That's a deal of a lifetime!!

 

As for the availability of options for the GS1, I'm thinking of just needing the body, a wide lens and a possibly a macro lens but I'm only looking at that just to see what it would be like, and not somethign i'd used seriously.

 

For serious macro, I'll stick to my Nikon D500 and either my Sigma 150 macro or my Nikkor 70-180 macro with my macro flashes and possibly a flash rail if I'm doing any focus stacking.

 

Otherwise I want to keep my landscape use for the GS1 very simple... camera body, lens, meter, & film/film backs... oh, and a tripod.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Ray S

[ben_hutcherson]

$300 for all of that?!? That's a deal of a lifetime!!

I couldn't believe it either when he priced it to me.

 

This is a shop where I "loaf" frequently, albeit I've bought a lot of stuff there. You really never know what you're going to find.

 

In any case, I walked in one day and the shop owner said "I just got something that you're really going to like" but wouldn't tell me what it was. I usually am in once a week or so, and he help dropping hints. He did tell me it was a Bronica, and finally showed me the big metal case. When I asked if I could look through it, he told me that he hadn't looked at it yet and he got to look at it before I did :) . Finally, I sat down and Moe and I(the shop cat) looked through it and I liked what I saw. He strung me along another week or two and finally named a price-I couldn't whip the money out fast enough.

 

All I can guess is that he bought it cheap. I've bought stuff from him as soon as the seller walked out the door, and he usually marks things up about about 20% or so for me. I'm guessing the Bronica may have been an auction purchase given that he really didn't know what all was in it.

 

The whole kit probably weighs 40lbs including the big metal suitcase it was in. The bodies really surprised me at how heavy they were(especially compared to the later SQs) and are also very solid feeling. The weight of the body is somewhat offset by the relatively lightweight lenses.

 

I'll still say that I'd really be inclined to avoid the GS-1. Even if pieces are less expensive than the RB or Pentax, the fact that they are almost impossible to find offsets that. One of the things that you really start to appreciate is that the systems are significantly more modular than 35mm systems. SLR bodies in a lot of ways exemplify the "light tight box" concept of what makes something a camera. Just as an example, I can't imagine not having interchangeable backs. I even find myself wishing for them on 35mm often, although bodies are light enough that you can load them up with different types of films(or rewind partial rolls). The rewind thing is actually significant since you can't do it with medium format. If you buy a complete camera, you'll probably find one film back, but I don't know when I even last saw one for sale for the GS-1(albeit I'm not actively looking for them). You'll have to keep your eyes peeled for anything beyond a normal lens, whereas you can pick up about anything you want at any time for a Hasselblad, Pentax, Mamiya, or Bronica SQ/ETR.

 

One last thing-at least the SQ and ETR backs are notoriously leaky, and given how similar the GS-1 is I wouldn't be surprised to find the same. All my SQ backs did leak to some degree or another, although fortunately none intruded into the image area. When I ordered seals for a bunch of other stuff recently, I persuaded John Goodman(light seal guru) to cut a couple of SQ kits and he had to dig out the tooling to do it. I think he mostly did it because I was buying enough other kits from him. The SQ seals are somewhat complicated. I can do most any 35mm SLR using bulk material that I cut myself, but the SQ seals are complicated enough(with a couple of "steps" in the foam) that I wanted pre-cut ones.

[scott_murphy5]

The Hasselblad 500CM is still an outstanding MF camera. The CZ C T* and CF T* lenses are likewise outstanding. Whereas Hasselblad was once only affordable by very successful professional photographers and people with lots of discretionary income, they are now very affordable.

 

I don't shoot a whole lot of 35mm that much any more but my 500CM an CZ lenses from 40mm to 250mm do not gather any dust. A 500CM and 40mm f/4 CF T* (equivalent to a 24mm on 35mm/FX) and very fine grained film like T-Max 100 and Kodak Ektar 100 are an outstanding combination for landscape photography.

[scott_murphy5]

For scanning the images, one route I'm considering is a flatbed scanner like an Epson v600 which scans medium format film. Alternatively a good friend of mine actually photographs images/film rather than scanning them. He has a full setup for both 35mm & larger medium format film. it's no simple setup mind you using an array of flashes, light distribution boxes, etc to get the shot properly. He used to work at a commercial film lab so he's pretty knowledgeable about what he's doing.

 

As for having a local lab develop film, where I am (Nor Cal) the closest shop that can develop film same day is 70 miles away in the Bay Area. You can drop it off in the morning and they can have it ready later in the afternoon. ALL other options I've investigated no longer develop film on premises and have to send their developing out which means 3 weeks before getting developed rolls back. :(

 

This is why I've begun developing my own film at home. My setup can accommodate medium format film so that's another reason I'm seriously considering this now.

 

A flatbed scanner like the Epson's are a somewhat poor choice for 35mm but do an acceptable job with MF. To get the maximum quality from the MF film, a dedicated film scanner, not a flatbed scanner that can also scan film, is a wise investment. Although they are OOP, Nikon makes two exceptional scanners, the Coolscan LS-8000 and LS-9000. I have an LS-8000 and it does a phenomenal job of scanning. But at 4000 dpi a 6x6 or 6x4.5 scan will produce a VERY large file, in excess of 700Mb depending on the scanner settings and type of film.

[rossb]

I'm only into it for a few weeks now and I am doing fine with my Mamiya 645e. I am using the Epson V600 scanner and am happy with it. I have not really tried to scan anything large and found that 2400 dpi provides me with files that are large enough for my purposes. I have not used it for 35mm so far. No plans to shoot 35mm for a while actually as I am having fun with the MF camera.

 

The V600 has a couple of things that I find irritating. First is the sharpening during scanning cannot be permanently turned off or permanently changed from medium unsharp mask. So after you do a preview scan you must select something or else you will get a medium unsharp mask applied. I prefer no sharpening and you have to uncheck the box to get that with each scan. Not that big of a deal but irritating. The second thing is on some films the scanner cannot recognize the frame correctly and you must exit the thumbnail view and go into normal view and then work from there. Working from the thumbnail view is preferable. I would buy the V600 again.

[ben_hutcherson]

I have a V700, which is the "big brother" to the V600. I bought the V700 because I need to scan 4x5(or maybe 8x10 at some point in the future) which the V700 can do.

 

Epson makes great scanners. My single biggest complaint about the V700 at least is the MF film holder, which IMO provides way too little support. My cheap Canon 2400F has a better MF holder-the rails are a tiny bit wider(not enough to intrude on the film) and it has two "clips" at the end to hold the film in place.

 

In fact, I'm considering buying one of these Holders and Products for the Epson V700 V750 V750-M (no connection, not even as a customer) as they get good reviews.

 

I also even occasionally wet scan MF if I'm dealing with a badly bowed negative, although wet scanning is a pain in the rear and I usually end up remounting a couple of times to get all the bubbles out.

[rick_jack1]

Can't agree with a GS-1 being a dud. I own all of the Bronica systems and their lenses. Out of the three series it's probably the best design and offers the best results. The only disadvantage is it's extra weight and bulk. IMO it handles better in the field than a RZ67 or Pentax 6x7. But for studio work I'd go with a RB/RZ. A 6x7 negative is 4x a 35mm frame while 645 is roughly double. But in the case of Bronica if you require a tilt/shift lens only the ETRS system has one.

Try to handle as many MF cameras as you can before making your choice, the best camera is the one that you'll use the most.

[ben_hutcherson]

Can't agree with a GS-1 being a dud. I own all of the Bronica systems and their lenses. Out of the three series it's probably the best design and offers the best results. The only disadvantage is it's extra weight and bulk. IMO it handles better in the field than a RZ67 or Pentax 6x7. But for studio work I'd go with a RB/RZ. A 6x7 negative is 4x a 35mm frame while 645 is roughly double. But in the case of Bronica if you require a tilt/shift lens only the ETRS system has one.

Try to handle as many MF cameras as you can before making your choice, the best camera is the one that you'll use the most.

 

 

I agree about handling as many as possible.

 

 

With that said, I didn't say that the GS-1 is a dud-truth be told I can't say either way. I am a big Bronica fan, though, and would probably buy one if it came along for the right price.

 

 

Once again, I'll just mention that my chief criticism is how difficult accessories for the system are to find. I know this wasn't an issue when they were new, but with Bronica long gone it's a big consideration if you want to move beyond a standard focal length lens and have more than one back.

 

 

Even SQ accessories are starting to get thin on the ground, and there were a LOT more SQs sold than GS-1s.

[c_watson1]

Can't agree with a GS-1 being a dud. I own all of the Bronica systems and their lenses. Out of the three series it's probably the best design and offers the best results. The only disadvantage is it's extra weight and bulk. IMO it handles better in the field than a RZ67 or Pentax 6x7. But for studio work I'd go with a RB/RZ. A 6x7 negative is 4x a 35mm frame while 645 is roughly double. But in the case of Bronica if you require a tilt/shift lens only the ETRS system has one.

Try to handle as many MF cameras as you can before making your choice, the best camera is the one that you'll use the most.

 

It very much was a dud in terms of sales since it never really found a home in the professional market relative to other brands and formats. It's a PITA to use without a rotary finder. Otherwise a nice camera with superb optics but probably the last MF system camera I'd chase after.

[Ray S]

It very much was a dud in terms of sales since it never really found a home in the professional market relative to other brands and formats. It's a PITA to use without a rotary finder. Otherwise a nice camera with superb optics but probably the last MF system camera I'd chase after.

What's a rotary finder? I was thinking of just using a waist level finder myself...

[ben_hutcherson]

What's a rotary finder? I was thinking of just using a waist level finder myself...

 

I'm not sure about a rotary finder. As you probably know(if I haven't said it 100 times in the thread...sorry for being repetitive) the RB67 has a rotating back. That makes it easy to change orientation. Most "Hasselblad like" MF SLRs don't rotate very well, and I'd hate to try and use a WLF sideways.

 

645 cameras are usually light enough even with a prism that they're not terrible to rotate to change orientations. As the format size increases, so does the corresponding prism. The 45º prism I have for the S2a weighs a little over a pound, and the metered prism I have for the RB67 weighs 2lbs. I don't know the specs on a GS-1 prism, but it's hard to get around the fact that you need a lot of glass to make a prism that big and it's going to be heavy. Although MF prisms tend to be a bit dim, I'd actually welcome a porroprism like what's used on a lot of cheap DSLRs just to cut down weight.

[c_watson1]

Rotary finders got around the problem of switching orientations on 645 and 6x7 Bronicas from landscape>portrait orientation with a WLF.

[rossb]

Ben I would say I was a bit disappointed when I saw the film holder on my V600. However I have use it for about 10 rolls and learned to work with it. The scanner comes with a black card that you can use on the lower end of the film strip to hold it flat. You put the card either on top or bottom depending on the direction of the bow. The top part has a slot for it to fit in. Anyway it is what it is. I am going to run with it.

 

If I had the V700/800 I suppose I would possibly buy a 4x5 camera. I watched a video on the Intrepid 4x5 camera and they sell new for about $280.00 US. Ben Horne on you tube had a video on it. It would probably be a real nice first time 4x5 camera. But the scanner is pretty expensive so I will just shoot my MF and be happy. I am just a guy taking pictures mostly of the family so a 4x5 camera is kind of silly to consider anyway.