To PMK or not to PMK

[ardea]

Someone a short while back posted a question about what to do after

he purchased a 4x5 camera...I felt like replying "build a darkroom"!

Well after my 4x5 Shen-Hao purchase I'm building a darkroom with

thanks to you folks that gave me valuable info. I'll post a few

photo's of the DR in the not to distant future.

 

In the distant past I developed 35mm negs in D-76 1:1 and lately 4x5

in trays I got what I thought were fairly good prints ,BUT I have no

way to judge objectivly since I have not seen any fine art prints

from the more well known artists in the field, so I don't know whats

possible. After studying Hutchings "The Book of Pyro" it seems that

one using PMK can capture the subtle variation in highlights or to

put it another way expand the higher tonal ranges, that one can't

using the more traditional developers. As we get spectacular cloud

formations here in the Florida Keys and Everglades i'm thinking this

method may be the way to go. I will not be contact printing (but I

think it would be neat to do with 8x10 and larger)but enlarging to

11x14 and 16x20. So...to all you folks that went up the PMK learning

curve, was it worth the effort?

 

Thanks so much,

Regards, Richard

[john lehman, college alask]

Yes, and the learning curve was not that steep. YMMV of course

[jay_wolfe]

While using PMK Pyro is a bit more complicated than some other developers (especially if you mix from scratch, but you also need to take much more care in handling both powered chemicals as well as the mixed pyro), you'll find learning to use it and getting the results you want is about the same as other developers. I get quite consistent results and I am very please with the negative quality.

[david_goldfarb]

To see some great fine art prints in your area, check out this guy:

 

http://www.clydebutcher.com/

 

I like Tri-X in PMK for negatives to be enlarged. Try it and see if the look is for you. It isn't that hard. Get one of the pre-measured kits from Photo Formulary, Artcraft, or Bostick-Sullivan, and if you're sold on it, you can get a scale and mix it yourself if you like.

 

It's not a panacea. I also like other film/developer combinations for other purposes. I might just as well use Delta 400 in Perceptol, which also produces clean blacks and delicate highlights, if it came in sheet sizes. It's best to try a variety of options, then stick to one or two combinations and refine them as much as you can.

[rayfc]

Hey Folks,

 

Please take this into consideration... I believe that the information pamphlet

that comes with PMK has outdated development information for TMAX film. I

suspect the times are for the old TMAX. A 20% reduction from the times in the

pamphlet seem to be a good starting point for the new TMAX emulsion. Once

I established my N processing time, each increment of N seems to be about a

10% change in time. So far, I have only verified this for N-1, N and N+1.

 

Also, PMK is pretty cool stuff. For the first time in my life, the end result of my

B&W work is starting to look the way I imagined it at the time I snapped the

shot.

 

Last, don't get too worked-up about mixing the dry PMK chemicals yourself.

Indeed, all chemicals should be treated with respect but, there is no mystery

to mixing PMK. Just follow the directions.

[robert_eastman]

The curve is not that great. One thing I did learn though was that pyro based developers like thicker emulsions. TriX is great.

Anyway I found I didn't use PMK all that often and so I generally made up 1 litre at a time. Here is the formula I used. Can't remember if this was in Gordo's book or not.

 

1 Litre Working Solution PMK

 

H2O 750ml

 

Pyrogallol 1g

 

Metol 0.1g

 

Sodium Sulphite 0.2

 

Sodium Metaborate 6g

 

H2O to make up 1 litre

 

Dev Times at 20° C

 

TMY @ 400 15 min

 

APX @ 100 13 min

 

APX @ 25 11 min

 

FP4+ @ 100 10 min

 

Delta 400 @ 320 11 min

 

Delta 100 @ 100 8 min?

[scott_killian1]

I also "grew up" using D-76 and 35mm and when I made the leap to large

format, I went through the same questions about PMK. I simply tried it early on

and have never looked back - this is the only developer I use today. (Ironiclly,

I just returned from the Everglades this weekend).

 

There really isn't much of a learning curve - just mix part A & B just before you

plan to use it (PMK has absolutely no shelf life) and dilute with water. Follow

the instructions in Hutching's book for agitation (tray processing is best -

Jobo's have too much agitation for most formulas of Pyro) and his appendix in

the back for time/temp and you should be very happy with the results.

 

I've found that I can hold an amazing range in the highlights - many of my

shots recently have been directly into the sun or into misty situations where

the sun is present in the highlights. I'm amazed at how much I can hold

without blowing out the highlights. Can't really compare it to many other

developers except HC-110 and D-76, but I get very predictable and solid

results with both Delta 100 and HP4.

[michael_kravit]

Richard,

 

Living in Delray Beach I regularly drive down to the Big Cypress and spend

the weekends shooting. If you can make it up Highway 41, Clyde Butcher has

his Big Cypress Gallery just a few miles NW of the south loop road entrance.

 

As David suggested, check out his gallery and should you wish his prints are

available for sale in a multitude of sizes. If Clyde is there, he is a wonderfully

friendly person to speak with.

 

I have been using PMK for both in camera and enlarged negative (Platinum

Printing) for years. I find that when you learn its tendencies you can obtain

wonderful prints with less work. However it is not the magic bullet and

requires experience just as any other developer would. Case in point is John

Sexton who IMHO makes some of the nicest silver prints is said to use T-Max

100 and T-Max RS developer quite often.

 

Good Luck

 

Mike

[brian_ellis3]

I, together with two friends, made fairly extensive tests of PMK a couple years ago by photographing the same scene twice, developing one negative in PMK and the other in our normal developers (D76 1-1 in my case). We found that we could always made the exact same print from a "normal" negative as with the PMK negative. In other words, there was no apparent benefit to using PMK. I believe Michael Smith expressed the same view in this forum a while back and the author of the pyro article in the current issue of "Photo Techniques" expresses the same view as I recall. Of course the tests we did were only of one film (HP5+) and we were comparing to only one other developer (D76) and of only a relatively few scenes (I think we made about ten or twelve duplicate photographs). Possibly the results would be different with different materials and/or scenes with different contrast ranges than we photographed.

 

The only real learning curve involved with PMK is trying to establish your film speed and development times. Normally I do film testing with a densitometer. The usual recommendation for using a densitomter with PMK negatives is to use a color densitomter and the blue filter. However, when I tried that I was unable to get consistent readings of the PMK negatives. I've since heard other people say the same thing. Densitometers and PMK just don't seem to be a compatible pairing.

[ardea]

Thanks guys for your informative views on PMK. From what I understand and from Brians reply is that PMK is really not much different than D-76 1:1 untill you get into broad contrast range. Thats where it shines (I hope)

 

Thanks, Richard

[ken_hughes4]

you can get what you want with just about any film or dev.. have you ever seen a list of all the different materials AA used over his lifetime? and he made superb images with pretty much all of them.

 

what makes the difference is you!

[john_hicks___]

Been there, done that, enough to get comfortable with the learning curve...and for what I do, ordinary enlarged silver prints, staining developers didn't offer any significant advantages _most of the time_ and ordinary materials could yield equally-good prints.

 

Two situations in which I'd likely use a staining developer (with an appropriate film, of course) are those in which quite a bit of highlight compression is needed while much less compression is wanted in the lower values (and printing on VC paper would imho be a required part of this) and if I intended to contact-print on an "alt" material that needs a significantly higher-than-usual printing density.

 

No doubt staining developers such as PMK, DiXactol, Pyrocat-HD, Rollo etc can give superb results, as can non-staining developers such as D-76, Rodinal etc.

 

_There is no magic juice_!

 

What counts is intimate familiarity with your materials, whatever they are.

[ed_pierce2]

I highly recommend trying Bergger BFP 200 with PMK. I'm currently trying it alongside my usual Tri-X/HC110 with every shot. So far (about 30 negatives, mostly snow scenes), the BFP/PMK is the clear winner in every case. For me. But I do detest having to wear gloves while developing and I'm a little nervous about the health risks.

[david_kaufman1]

I would like to second the response that said there is no apparent advantage to PMK. I also did extensive side by side testing with both new and old emulsion films, specifically T-Max 100, T-Max 400, and FP4 plus. I got great stain on all the negatives but when it came to printing, in carefully controlled sessions using identical negatives developed in Hutchings two-part PMK formula and in my standard developers, T-Max RS and D-76, there was virtually no difference in the quality of silver gelatin prints obtainable and no difference in highlight-holding and differentiation ability in the PMK negatives. So at least for the two-part Hutchings formula, I see absolutely no advantage over other more mainstream developers.

[ardea]

Thanks to all of you who responded to my query. I think the way I will procede ,is to work with D-76 1:1 and find out it's range using just a couple of films. With that I can establish a base line to evaluate PMK or other film developers.

Regards, Richard

[michael_kravit]

There is one very important benefit to using PMK or other Pyro based staining developer. For those photographers who would like the option of printing in either silver or palladium/platinum, a PMK Pyro stained negative will allow you to print in both mediums.

 

I can print a PMK negative in palladium or silver whereas I can print an HC-110 or D-76 negative in silver only unless i develop for a density range of 1.8 or higher.

 

Mike

[ben_calwell]

I'm fresh off my first experience with PMK, and I can tell you that it did the job for me on an urban night scene that I photographed recently. Compared to negatives of the same scene developed in HC110, the PMK neg wins hands down. A neon sign in my shot contact prints with wonderful detail from the PMK neg on multicontrast paper. The neon sign is blown out on the HC110 negs, even though I developed them at high dilution and with infrequent agitation. PMK may not be the magic bullet for all shots, but I was certainly impressed with the way it handled this scene, which was shot on 5x7 Tri-X. I plan to experiment more with it.

[c_p_goerz]

No difference in D76 and PMK??? maybe if you shoot a scene

with no backlight or bright areas. I , for the first time saw 'sharp'

clouds in my prints just as GW had, something I never ever seen

with ID11, Rodinal,hc110, etc etc.

 

PMK gave me an easier to print neg ( I don't use variable contrast

papers) that had all the edge sharpness and micro edges in the

print that were just not there with other developers. My lenses

seemed 'sharper' all of a sudden.

 

The only drawbacks I found with PMK were the lack of pushability

in the contrast department but that can be adjusted with the

addition of 1/8th TSPN of Amidol to the working solution. To get

superminus development just pop the neg in the jobo with 1 ltr of

water and the A solution ONLY for about 20 mins. After that time

take the neg out and place it in a tray, add 1 tspn of B solution to

the mixture the neg was cooking in and gently agitate, after five

mins add one more tspn to the developer. When you add the B

solution pour the developer in the tray into a bowl, add the tspn

then pour back over the neg and continue for 5 more mins.

 

The negative will develop more deeply into the emulsion, in fact if

you are developing it just right you will see the image highlights

come through to the BACK of the neg.

 

I let the neg soup up for about 20 mins then inspect with a deep

green light for a few seconds to check how it comes along. The

negative will not look quite like a standard pyro neg, it will be a bit

thinner but will print beautifully on the paper.

 

 

I once shot the interior of a garage looking out onto downtown LA

and the exposure for IV on the shadows gave me XXIII for the

skyline. I developed the neg as I described above and whn I

printed the thing it looked like the most perfectly masked neg you

had ever seen! I totally avoid these shots in my own snaps, I did

it as an extreme test but its one that can be adjusted to get you a

minus 3 or 5 to make the pic you thought was doubtful a keeper.

 

 

 

C P Goerz

[j.w.]

In the book 'Edge of Darkness', he indicates that PMK does not exhibit much advantage when using multigrade papers, but works well with graded papers. Seems the yellowish/green tint effects the MG paper adversely, that is, it neutralizes any advantage it might otherwise have on graded papers. He also indicates that it doesn't work with any distinct advantage on HP5.

[c_p_goerz]

Exactly on the PMK with multigrade stuff, Anytime I print whether its from an older neg I developed in HC110 to the newer ones in PMK I just find it faster and easier to get a better print on graded, its a shame as graded papaers are disappearing faster than beers in my fridge!!

 

 

CP Goerz.

[c_p_goerz]

PS: HP5 is the most unremarkable film ever made, its so bland, Skies tend to get washed out fast no matter how deep a yellow you throw on the front. FP4 though is another story, still the champ after all these years. You can push/pull that film till the cows come home, then its milking time and you have to get out the darkroom.

 

 

CP Goerz

[philip_sweeney]

I use PMK with FP4 only. I used to use HC110. The first neg I developed in PMK was noticeably sharper. That is one good reason. N + 2 is another. FP4 cannot be developed past N + 1 with HC110.