emaxxman Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I'm struggling with getting a proper white balance with my 7d and 5600hs flash. I have a Stofen Omnibounce on the flash and bounce off the ceiling. The pics always have a strong reddish/yellow tint to the them...see attached pic. I can't get right whether I have the white balance set to automatic white balance or flash.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_hohner Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 What's the color of the ceiling? Did you try custom white balance? <p> You could also shoot with RAW format and select the proper white balance when you convert the RAW files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterblaise Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 . PROVE that your particular Konica Minolta Alpha/Dynax/Maxxum 7D has a white balance problem with the 5600HS(D) flash by removing the Stofen and then checking white balance - you are using a D lens, right? Tell us what lens you are using.* You don't have a white balance problem, you have an accurate picture of ambient lighting with insufficient flash illumination. The Stofen so significantly changes the expected flash output that the camera's accurate prediction for direct flash is waiting, waiting, waiting for the real flash to arrive, and the Stofen, doing it's job off-program distributes the flash where Minolta wasn't expecting it. You have Minolta expecting one thing and Stofen delivering another! Enjoy your ambient lighting pictures while you consume batteries and blind people! ;-) I have the same problem using Minolta's own CD-1000 Close-up Diffuser over my flash. All bets are off, white balance and exposure pre-calculation wise, if the flash output is changed in any way from factory specifications, and a diffuser does just that - makes YOU the boss, and Minolta the subordinate. You're gonna have to play, manually. Try flash exposure compensation - at least that's a direct input and direct readout knob for you. Try including a black/grey/white card in the picture so you have a reference - see http://www.QPcard.com/ Also, ask Stofen: http://www.stofen.com/FAQ/index.htm PHONE: 1-831-427-0235 ORDER: 1-800-538-0730 FAX: 1-831-423-8336 ADDRESS: P.O.Box 7609, Santa Cruz, CA 95061, US E-Mail: Ernesto@stofen.com http://www.stofen.com/ContactSubmit.htm Let us know how it goes. - Click! Peter Blaise, Minolta Rokkor Alpha DiMage Photographer * Thanks for the EXIF data: File: - Thang-Hoang-00JMZA-34241684-minolta.jpg - ImageDescription - KONICA MINOLTA DIGITAL CAMERA - Make - KONICA MINOLTA - Model - MAXXUM 7D - Orientation - Top left - XResolution - 72 - YResolution - 72 - ResolutionUnit - Inch - Software - ACD Systems Digital Imaging - DateTime - 2007:01:02 22:27:09 - YCbCrPositioning - Centered - ExifOffset - 266 - ExposureTime - 1/60 seconds - FNumber - 5.60 - ExposureProgram - Aperture priority - ISOSpeedRatings - 800 <<== WITH FLASH? WHY?!? - ExifVersion - 0210 - DateTimeOriginal - 2006:12:11 20:50:40 - DateTimeDigitized - 2006:12:11 20:50:40 - ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr - BrightnessValue - 0.25 - ExposureBiasValue - 0.70 - MaxApertureValue - F 2.83 - MeteringMode - Multi-segment - LightSource - Auto - Flash - Flash fired, compulsory flash mode - FocalLength - 70.00 mm - UserComment - <<== PUT YOUR NAME HERE! - SubsecTime - 634 - FlashPixVersion - 0100 - ColorSpace - sRGB - ExifImageWidth - 500 - ExifImageHeight - 752 - InteroperabilityOffset - 39080 - CustomRendered - Normal process - ExposureMode - Auto - WhiteBalance - Auto - DigitalZoomRatio - 0 x - FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 105 mm - SceneCaptureType - Standard - GainControl - High gain up - Contrast - Soft - Saturation - High - Sharpness - Hard <<== HUH? UNRELATED< BUY ALSO - WHY? - Maker Note (Vendor): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phule Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 <<ISOSpeedRatings - 800 <<== WITH FLASH? WHY?!?>> To bring up the background of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon_dragon Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I'd shoot in raw and adjust the white balance when you "develop" the MRW file in photoshop, or Bridge or the rather neat photoshop plugin MRW which reads the raw file. Barring that I'd use custom white balance to figure otu what the white balance should be. You could shoot the subject with a grey card (or a white card) so that when you get the MRW raw image in photoshop you can use the card to set the white balance for all the images (especially if you use Aperture or LightRoom so that you can do the exact same thing to ALL pictures). You could also use the "Expo Disk" in front of the lens with the custom white balance but you'd have to buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterblaise Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 . Earlier: "... <<ISOSpeedRatings - 800 <<== WITH FLASH? WHY?!?>> ... To bring up the background of course ..." Huh? I think you mean to extend the range of the flash - but that is not the goal here. The sample shot shows a small room, not a deep forest with distant tree detail, or a large room with distant architectural features, for instance. Rather than extending the range of the flash (and the life of the batteries) where the background would be white/flash light, the photographer, Thang, is trying to capture as much ambient non-flash light as possible while also letting in some supplemental fill-flash order to (a) fill in otherwise lost detail in high contrast shadows - that's "fill flash", and (b) allowing the fill-flash to also gently fill in facial features that may have unflattering shadows, but still having the flash NOT be the primary lighting in the portrait. These, (a) and (b), are the usual purposes of fill-flash, especially in portrait photography. Higher ISO settings tend to shorten the shutter speed compared to lower ISO settings and therefore reduce the amount of open shutter time available to capture "background" or ambient light before the shutter closes. To capture the MOST ambient light, lengthen the shutter speed. To lengthen the shutter speed, lower the ISO and / or close down the aperture. However, since the camera in question has a [slow Sync] button right there under the photographer's right thumb, why not let the Minolta fuzzy-logic, sophisticated intelligence do the auto-combining of background/ambient light and the supplemental fill-flash light? [slow Sync] sets the shutter for the available pre-flash ambient lighting, and then adds flash to that - the photographer's goal! Thang - have you tried it yet? Note also that with long shutter speeds, there's the chance to capture subject movement, and fill-flash tends to reduce the effect of that by creating a quick "harder" image of the moving person on top of the softer ambient image of the moving person. Yet, if the person moves too much, there's a neat unintended dynamic that may be even more interesting than a straight portrait - to each there own. Slight movement tends to smooth the complexion, but also soften details we expect to appear sharp, like eye lashes and such. - Click! Peter Blaise, Minolta Rokkor Alpha DiMage Photographer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emaxxman Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Mike - The room has a bright white ceiling with all bright white wood trim and wainscot. In fact the room is more than 70% bright white. The only non-white surfaces are the floor, couch, curtains, the grey-blue wall you see in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emaxxman Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Peter, I think you may be on to something with the Stofen. When using the Stofen, I get very severe flash underexposure if the flash is not bounced off the ceiling. I also have to up the flash exposure compensation by 1/2 when using the Stofen. Note: I am using a Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 "D" lens. It always worked well with my film Maxxum 7. I got it rechipped by Sigma when I got the 7D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emaxxman Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 ---------------- Peter wrote: ---------------- Rather than extending the range of the flash (and the life of the batteries) where the background would be white/flash light, the photographer, Thang, is trying to capture as much ambient non-flash light as possible while also letting in some supplemental fill-flash order to (a) fill in otherwise lost detail in high contrast shadows - that's "fill flash", and (b) allowing the fill-flash to also gently fill in facial features that may have unflattering shadows, but still having the flash NOT be the primary lighting in the portrait. These, (a) and (b), are the usual purposes of fill-flash, especially in portrait photography. --------------------- You are correct. I've found that I get a more desireable balance of ambient light when using ISO 800. I've also used a tripod and manually setting a slower shutter speed with decent results. I will have to practice with different shutter speeds more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 "When using the Stofen, I get very severe flash underexposure if the flash is not bounced off the ceiling. " Your camera uses the distance measurement (D) when using straight flash with a D lens (unless you tell it otherwise). This causes the severe underexposure with the Stofen in place. The flash output is much less than the camera thinks. When bounced, the camera knows that the camera to subject distance cannot be used to accurately estimate the strength of the flash, and thus it measures the actual light reaching the sensor in the camera (through the lens). This is why bounced flash works better with the Stofen. But you can set the camera to measure TTL or preflash instead of using the D-setting even with D lenses. That would improve your direct (unbounced) Stofen shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterblaise Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 . Thang, Shoot a dummy / stuffeed animal or patient volunteer under normal or subdues room lighting, and with the caemra on a tripod, set the ISO to lowest and select slow sync flash. Then bracket at -1 and -2 flash compensation (NOT exposure compensation) Then try additional exposures same /same EXCEPT increment ONLY the ISO, and then also try -1 ad -2 flash compensation. You SHOULD see the LOW ISO has the most room light in the final image, especially at -2 flash on slow sync. I think you may have had merely weaker flash output when using ISO 800 before, and your new setup is anticipating or measuring (or not) flash very differently. Let us know how low ISO ambient slow sync flash and -1 / -2 flash compensation works for you - and yes, use pre-exposure TTL flash test mode, not ADI-flash when the flash is bouncing - this is covered in the owner's manual under ADI do's and don't's. - Click! Peter Blaise, Minolta Rokkor Alpha DiMage Photographer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_last17 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Hello Thang, I Used to have the same problem that related from your tread. The method of Michael Hohner is right but use a lot of time. Peter Blaise Monahon: I'm sorry but I used to try: flash compensation dosen't work well for that but you can try also. "Try including a black/grey/white card in the picture so you have a reference" that is a good way for checking but it don't give you the answer. Changing the ISO is a correct approach in most case. Try this something like this: http://www.pbase.com/cekari/image/48841506 Put your bouncer (I have the same) but don't connect the 5600HS by a cable. Use the built-in pop-up flash as the master then the 5600HS as wire less. White balance around 4700K (up to you, try). For me it work perfectly. Friendly method (No hassel). The only cons is that you have two shadows (only me know it!). Cheeers !!! SCSI. NB: I have 2 7d and 3 5600HS Photo with 17-35mm G (not a new generation) at 400 ISO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_last17 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Croped sample with Stofen Omnibounce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_last17 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Crop without the system above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_last17 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 The Stofen Omnibounce mounted on the 5600HS in wire less mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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