robert_paul1 Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 I noticed an ad in the paper yesterday, for a local electronic store that does a lot of business in Sony products. The ad was for the new Alpha. The ad did not give prices as they were "Too Low to Advertise". In other words, they fell below Sony's MAP, Minimum Advertised Price. This means that Sony will not pay co-op money if the store advertises a price lower than a certain price. I did not have an opportunity to check out the store, but hope to next week. Has anyone else seen what the street prices are on the Sony Alpha line? I tried to look on eBay, to see what the A100 was going for. However, it seems that every seller was including either a memory card or multiple lenses in their price, so it is hard to determine the actual price for the body alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 'Too low to advertise' can also be a marketing gimmick. After all, it is not, 'Lower than MAP' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_paul1 Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 The store is not known to pull stunts like that. They run a straight forward business. Not sure what you mean by 'Not Lower than MAP'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_paul1 Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 .[. Z, perhaps you don't believe that companies have a MAP, or Minimum Advertised Price, but I can tell you that MAPs exist. I don't know if you are familiar with sales and marketing, but I am. I have seen several MAPs over the years. Normally, what they say is that if a retailer advertises below a certain price, the manufacturer will not pay or give co-op (cooperative) ad money for that ad. In most cases companies like Sony gives a retailer 3% of a stores Net Purchases back as for advertising. If a store buys $100K worth of goods, then they can receive $3,000 back in a co-op fund to run ads for the manufacturers products. The amount of money is big to a retailer that is working with small margins. Since a retailer can sell something for whatever they want, even below cost, the manufacturers normally tells the retailer that they will not pay for the ad, if the retailer goes below the MAP. However, the subject of a Minimum Advertised Price, is a sensitive area, as in certain locations, there are legal limitations as to what a manufacturer can do. I worked with one company where I had to sign a confidentiality statement. I was not allowed to discuss the MAP policy with anyone else in the company, not even the sales manager. If I had a question I had to contact the legal department. The hard part about the company's MAP program, was that I was limited in what I could tell the retailer, just that I had to convey to the retailer that the company didn't want to see ads with prices below a certain price. (Try doing that!) The retailer was free to sell the products below MAP, but could not advertise the price if they did. And to top it off, if the retailer did run the item below the MAP, the retailer would not be able to receive further deliveries for 6 months. I have never seen the company's products run at below MAP, although it was sold at Costco for a lower price. .[. Z, Minimum Advertised Price, is not like the Tooth Fairy, it does exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Rob, you're not paying attention. "Too low to advertise" does not mean "We're actually pricing this lower than MAP." Got it? Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew robertson Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 It's a scheme to get you in there so the sales guy can pressure you to buy it from him. They just don't want you comparison shopping from B&H, because it's quite likely that B&H is cheaper. I have found B&H to be roughly 1/3 less for a lot of items than other camera stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_frater Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 In Australia prices vary in the hundreds. I have seen price differences of up to $400 for the same kit. Also advertising as "Massive price cut" "Too low to believe" "Too low to advertise" Is a pure sale gimmick, usually seen when stores want to get rid of their older stock in place of the newer model. Either that or it is a pure gimmick to get people into the store and actaully find not a big saving whatsoever, but hey you are in the store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_paul1 Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 .[. Z, you're not listening. This store doesn't do that kind of stuff. And you didn't post whether, you believe that companies have a MAP policy. Andrew, B&H Photo has very good prices, no doubt. However, there are some local stores in my area that come very close to them in pricing, and this store is one of them. And don't forget, you need to add in shipping, so they end up cheaper than B&H. Many times, I've found Amazon.com to beat everyone. This is due to their Free Shipping if you buy more than $25, plus no tax added. They don't always have the exact item I want in stock, but I just keep checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_paul1 Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 Jimmy, .[. Z, Andrew, I guess there is no sense arguing with you three, as you all seem to know it all, even though none of you three have given any proof that you say is true. I have at least given a first hand account of how MAPs operate based on my recent experience with another company that has a MAP policy. From what I've seen in the past on this forum, people that have first hand knowledge are chased away or ridiculed. (This is something I guess I'm guilty of when I dissed Chad in another question on this forum, for which I really should apologize.) I can see that there is no further reason to respond to your posts on this matter. I will respond to others that have something to contribute to the subject matter. Have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew robertson Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Who gives a crap about MAP anyway? All I care about is what the retailer's actual price is (without considering rebates). But I'm still not convinced that 'Too Low to Advertise' means 'Lower than other places.' And the truth of what I say can be easily had, if you'll mention the name of this store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_frater Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I have been doing artwork for sales brochures and magazines for a few large chain stores for about 3 years now as a small aspect of my work. I add those things because we want to sell to the mindless masses that they are getting is a deal to good to be true. Having those things on there can be done for endless reason. Do I care about MAP..... No! As I have never used the advertising technique for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_thorlin Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Umm ! 1 - Do not believe all you read in the papers - especially the adverts ! 2. Do not know where you are but it seems an odd place with only a high-price retailer ( Ritz ) and an electronics store ( un-named )prepared to do deep discounting. 3. It seems very odd that this electronics store would sell so cheaply when the only opposition around is ( reputedly ) so high priced and even more odd that they would risk their relationship with Sony over a very new product which appears to be selling well at the recommended price. 4. The word from Sony would appear to be "It is not available body only at the moment - after all as we all know the money is in the lenses". 5. Is this not all unnecessarily speculative for, as you say you will be "checking them out" very shortly and can then let us know exactly what, if anything, is going on. 6. People are entitled to an opinion, even if it differs from yours, so let's stay calm for the benefit of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Robert, if you are so sure you're right, kindly come back with the name of the store along with the lower-than-MAP prices you're sure they're suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmphoto1 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Not sure what MAP is, but I bet it equals MSRP, which could explain why Sony lenses are so EXPENSIVE. chad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_paul1 Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 Chad, I explained what MAP was twice in this forum 'question', so please read them. Bill, where did I say that there were only Ritz and an electronic store in my area? I only said that the electronic store ran an ad. The reason that they offer a lower price than a national chain might be that they want to compete against the big boys, and one way to do it is by offering lower prices. In fact a check of Amazon.com, shows one store offering the A100 kit for below Sony's price. Also, if you check eBay (or fleabay for Bill), you'll see several different prices, although those items usually includes 'extras' which tend to disguise the price of the main item. As for the question as to why I didn't mention the name of the electronic store is 1) it is a local store, and you don't have one in your area, so you've never heard of it, so why bother mentioning it. You're not going to buy from them. 2) it isn't germaine to my question which was "Has anyone else seen what the street prices are on the Sony Alpha line?" I don't know why some posters can't try and help other readers in trying to help determine what the real 'street price' is on the Sony A100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_thorlin Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 "only Ritz ....." - these are the only ones mentioned specifically that I can see. "The reason that they offer a lower price........." - my point number 5 would seem to cover this. "you'll see several different prices ......." - as I said in another thread it is early days and it will soon become clear - in the meantime however, why not try on Google - I have seen prices from a number of retailers here in the UK. "why I didn't mention the name...." - is there something highly confidential about the name of this organisation ? Just stating the name will stop any further time and space expended on this point and it might just help someone else in your area get a bargain price - if this proves to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Yes, you silly people, it's a local store and you nosybodies dare not ask Robert the name, or anything as ridiculous as proof, because ... um, because! that's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_paul1 Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 Bill, as I put in my original question- "I did not have an opportunity to check out the store, but hope to next week." Bill, I do have a life beyond this forum, and as I am waiting for a full-frame sensor DSLR, there is no rush for me to go check out the price of a camera I'm not looking to buy. As for not naming the store, I guess it is the same reason that you have, when in the past you were challenged to list your camera equipment by a former poster. (Hopefully, that dreadful person is gone for good.) As I remember, you, for whatever reason refused to answer the question. Is it 'highly confidential'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmphoto1 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 "As for not naming the store, I guess it is the same reason that you have, when in the past you were challenged to list your camera equipment by a former poster. (Hopefully, that dreadful person is gone for good.) As I remember, you, for whatever reason refused to answer the question. Is it 'highly confidential'?" Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_thorlin Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 1. You initiated this thread on "street prices" so it was reasonable to assume you were interested. 2. My point number 5 of posting on 13th. inst. quoted you verbatim so I am fully aware of what you said. My other points remain largely unanswered of course. 3. I posted a list of the equipment I owned and used back in February 2006. I am getting a feeling of "DEJA VU". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterblaise Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 . "... I don't know why some posters can't try and help other ..." ... I don't suppose anybody'd like to put THAT to a vote, eh? =8^o Put in an X, folks: Robert..= helpful ...|...|...|...|...|...not Bill.......= helpful ...|...|...|...|...|...not Anybody.= helpful ...|...|...|...|...|...not ... and so on. Who wants to volunteer to be "graded" and voted on by others here for their ability to help or not? ========== Here's what I got: ADORAMA ----- Here is your requested price quote: SKU: ISODSLRA100K Brand: Sony Title: Sony DSLR-A100 a (alpha) Digital SLR Camera Kit with 18-70mm Lens, 10.2 MP, Interchangeable Lens. Price: $999.95 ----- Due to Manufacturers restrictions, we are unable to sell this item on-line. To order please call us at 1-800-223-2500. http://www.adorama.com/ISODSLRA100K.html ----- ADORAMA ========== At PRICEWATCH.com http://castle.pricewatch.com/s/search.asp?s=sony+alpha+A100 Shows ONLY CRITCHFIELD.com http://www.crutchfield.com/S-NaX42bcIycv/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?i=158A100K ... at the same $999.99 (free shipping, though) ========== Out of stock - is that good or bad? They must be selling? Anybody want to actually contribute information rather than tease? Robert, I don't suppose you can go back in time ans start this thread AFTER actually checking out the store, eh? MAP or whatever may also mean Sony won't pay for an ad using co-op money if the advertised price is to small, but for Adorama to not even offer to sell it over the Internet! ========== Sony Style at http://www.sonystyle.com/ http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start;sid=NRz5VWsDR7z5xi_jYs3zXiQTiWVZtedfXRI=?CategoryName=dcc_DIDigitalCameras&Dept=cameras doesn't even have it on their front page for digital cameras! Deeper at http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start?CategoryName=dcc_DIDigitalCameras_style_dslr&Dept=cameras it's available full price: DSLR Products: 1-3 ========== Sonyﾮ á (alpha) DSLR-A100K Camera Body + 18-70mm Lens DSLR-A100K $ 999.95 as low as $29.00/ month Includes 18-70mm lens 10 MP resolution High Sensitivity Super SteadyShotﾮ stabilization Sony and Carl Zeissﾮ lens systems Expected to ship on or before August 18th, 2006 ========== Sonyﾮ á (alpha) DSLR-A100 Camera Body DSLR-A100 $ 899.95 as low as $26.00/ month Advanced Sony DSLR design 10 MP resolution High Sensitivity Super SteadyShotﾮ stabilization Sony and Carl Zeissﾮ lens systems ========== Sonyﾮ á (alpha) DSLR-A100K Starter Kit DSLR-A100KKIT1 $ 1,308.99 Includes 18-70mm lens 10 MP resolution High Sensitivity Super SteadyShotﾮ stabilization Sony and Carl Zeissﾮ lens systems Starter Kit Includes: Sonyﾮ á (alpha) DSLR-A100 Camera Body + 18-70mm Lens HVLF36AM Digital Camera Flash LCSAMA/B Premium Carrying Case MSX1GST Memory Stick PROﾙ Duo Media MSACUS40 USB Reader Expected to ship on or before August 18th, 2006 ========== ANYBODY can find this on the Internet. Only each of us one at a time can report back on actually walking in to a local store and asking. Anyway, this one for our archives - "Sony prices an enigma, Monday, August 14, 2006 07:04:18 AM" Click! Love and hugs, Peter Blaise peterblaise@yahoo.com Minolta Rokkor Alpha DiMage Photographer http://www.peterblaisephotography.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_paul1 Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Peter, are you volunteering to be graded? If you are, I'm ready to grade you right now. Bill, if you're willing to fly over the pond (I don't you can drive over), and meet me in my hometown, I'm more than willing to drive you over to the store in question. Who knows, you might save $25 below Sony's MSRP. I'm sure Andrew and Jimmy, although he's coming from Down Under, will be coming along as well. Of course with airport security as strict as it is in your part of the world, I think you'll have to leave your camera at home. As for my interest in the A100 prices, I'm only intersted in seeing how Sony will be able to control prices on their bodies and lenses. If I see that prices will be controlled, especially on the lenses, I will have an idea of what to expect when Sony comes out with their full-frame DSLR within the next year. If it appears that Sony's prices on lenses will continue to be higher than the competition, I will make plans to dump my present set-up and go on to greener pastures. If it appears that Sony is not really going to be a player in the DSLR market, I'll switch to someone who will. This would be primarily be Canon and Nikon, although it may be Olympus, but they need to come out with a body with at least 10-12 mp for my taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_paul1 Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 "MAP or whatever may also mean Sony won't pay for an ad using co-op money if the advertised price is to small, but for Adorama to not even offer to sell it over the Internet!" Peter, I believe you are the first person on this forum to understand what the MAP is. It is possible that Sony considers a website as advertising and therefore is willing to pay for some of the cost of advertising on the website. Therefore, the MAP also would extend to the internet. As for checking prices, did you check out Amazon.com? There was one listing that showed the kit below MSRP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Yawn: another unsupported claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_gillette Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 One can also find several below msrp on Pricegrabber. All that proves is what items are advertised for. If one believes that product is actually being delivered for all the prices they see in magazines or the internet.... well, there are a number of stores which would love to have you call, card in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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