SONY DSLR lenses

[clinton_abe]

I heard something today that I didn't know. My friends who work at

Ritz were telling me that SONY owns about 20-25% of Tamron. This

might explain why at least two of the last three lenses KM released,

were made by Tamron. In the past, a number of Minolta lenses were

made for Minolta, by Tokina under contract. Which ones, I don't

know, so don't ask.

 

So, while KonicaMinolta may produce the bodies for SONY, under

contract, I would expect the lenses to be made by Tamron.

 

And, if anyone is looking for a 5D, they have one in the showcase.

The 7D was sold, and they don't know if they'll get any more in.

They have a number of lenses left, including the 28-75 f/2.8.

[clinton_abe]

I did some follow-up research as to Sony's interest in Tamron. According to Tamron's (Japan) website, SONY owns 3,130,000 shares, or 11.08% of Tamron's outstanding shares. SONY is Tamron's second largest investor. Therefore, I suspect that Tamron will me making a large percentage, if not all of SONY's DSLR lenses.

[bill_thorlin]

The news just gets better and better.

[michael_hohner]

But remember that Sony now also owns 49% of KMPI's production capacities and 100% of the photo technology. So I bet they will use some of that, meaning that the Tamron designs will be produced by Tamron, and Minolta's own designs will be produced by TCFKAKMPI (The Company Formerly Known As KonicaMinolta Photo Imaging).

[clinton_abe]

Michael- We know that KM will be producing the bodies for SONY, but it's not sure if KM will be making lenses. Tokina made a number of KM's lenses, under contract. I'm not sure who made the 'G' lenses. But, if KM made them, I would suspect KM would continue to do so, if SONY plans on coming out with PRO-level lenses. Tamron's SP lenses were not quite up to the level of a 'G' lens.

[clinton_abe]

"But remember that Sony now also owns 49% of KMPI's production capacities and 100% of the photo technology."

 

Michael, I'm not sure I know what you meant to say. First of all, KM no longer has a Photo Imaging division, it shut down on 3/31/06. And when SONY and KM entered into their original agreement, SONY and KM did not form a separate company. SONY never bought any shares, financial interest, in KM, as far as I can see. It was merely a joint-development agreement, which was dissolved when KM decided to exit the photo market. KM has said, in so many words, that they will be making the bodies for SONY. There is no mention in any financial statement by either company, that shows SONY owned 49% of KM's Photo Imaging division.

 

As for the '100%' of the photo technologies, it hasn't been shown to be the case. SONY bought the A-mount, Anti-Shake, and some other stuff, but probably not all of what KM owned. For example, there has been no mention of the flashes or meters. The KM flashes were probably made for KM, by another company. What they bought was what SONY wanted for their DSLRs, not the whole of KM photo technology catalog.

[weatherman]

I wonder if Sony will introduce and primes for Minlota AF mount.

Are they going to be made by Tamron? And will the quality suffer in that case. Minolta ones are great..

[michael_hohner]

KM retained 51% of the production capacity. Just re-read the announcements.

<p>

Metering equipment never was part of KMPI, but is a separate division of KM. Sony didn't buy that.

<p>

Yes, Minolta made all G lenses themselves, and most of the non-G lenses, too. They even made their own glass for them! It was only very recently that some lenses were made by Tamron.

<p>

<blockquote><em>And when SONY and KM entered into their original agreement, SONY and KM did not form a separate company. SONY never bought any shares, financial interest, in KM, as far as I can see.</em></blockquote>

<p>

True, and I didn't say they did. My point is just that <em>now</em> Sony has a bigger share of what formerly was KMPI than of Tamron, so it can be expected that they don't let it unused.

[clinton_abe]

Michael- Can you post a link to the info you're referring to? I couldn't find anything about a 51%/49% split in any annoucement. I also question, your assertion that Minolta made most of their lenses. I've been told by numerous people, on numerous occasions, that Tokina made a number of them. These 'people' include the former rep for KM. There was a time Minolta used to make their own lenses, and all the glass for the lenses, by themselves. However, that was a long time ago, when I was working for them. Minolta stopped advertising that fact back in the late 70's. Also, where does it state that SONY owns any shares in KM? I think you're confused. The joint developing agreement did not say that SONY bought any shares in KM, so how can they control any percentage of KM?

 

Just because two companies agree to do something doesn't mean one company owns part of another company.

[jamesdak]

Stragight from KonicaMinolta's own archived webpage:

 

Maxxum Lenses

Introduction

 

The Minolta Maxxum Autofocus Lens System is one of the worldﾒs most complete lens systems, covering every kind of lens from wideangle, telephoto, and wide-range zooms to large-aperture, reflex, and soft focus types. Only Minolta Maxxum AF lenses are expressly made to link perfectly with your Minolta Maxxum AF SLR. Every Maxxum AF lens locks into your Minolta camera to form an integrated unit that allows focus and exposure data to flow from the lensﾒ read-only memory (ROM) integrated circuit to the cameraﾒs central processing unit.

 

Each Maxxum AF lens is a product of Minoltaﾒs advanced computer-assisted optical design. Minolta is one of the few camera makers who insist on making our own optical glass. Our uncompromising quality control in every aspect of the lens-making craft assures you of the finest performance. If youﾒre ready to dramatically expand your photography, experience the Minolta Maxxum AF lens system.

 

Minolta is one of the few major camera manufacturers in the world who make their very own lenses. When used with manual-focusing Minolta X-Series SLR cameras, these lenses offer unmatched accuracy, color rendition, and performance. Minolta manufacturers each lens, including the optical glass, with the utmost dedication to quality and precision. Scores of painstaking procedures are required, in addition to continuous inspections at every step of production. A full selection of lenses is available, including wide angle, standard, telephoto, macro, and zoom models.

[clinton_abe]

Jim- Yes, at one time, Minolta did make their own glass and lenses, but that was way back when. What you're quoting is from the early 80's. Minolta started farming out work when the Japan economy turned south in the 1990's. It became more economical for them to outsource than to produce in-house. As KM's departure from the photo business shows, time and situations change.

[jamesdak]

I don't know because I'm an photographer, not an Minolta business expert. But what I do know is that the info I just posted was still available on KonicaMinolta's website as recent as 2 March 2006.

[clinton_abe]

Jim- The key word in your earlier post is 'archived'. That info was released when Minolta first came out with their Auto-Focused Dynax/Maxxum system over twenty years ago. I had the brochure. In brochures from the 1990's and this century, Minolta and KonicaMinolta never again made mention of producing their own glass and/or lenses. I remember when I first noticed the change back then. As a long time Minolta user, and an ex-employee, I was shocked not to see that reference. Every time I went into a camera store, I would search for a new brochure to see if it would be mentioned. I never did see it. It was written back when Minolta was at its prime. Since then, much water has passed under the bridge. Minolta was sued by Honeywell for patent infringement, and that hurt Minolta financially.

 

When the Japan economic bubble burst back in the mid 1990's, many Japanese companies had to revise the way they did business. Minolta was one of them. Why do you think Minolta and Konica merged? They needed to save money or go out of business. Minolta had earlier decided that it was cheaper to farm the work of producing lenses, out to an outside supplier, rather than to make all of their own glass and lenses.

 

As an aside, in the good old days of the 60's and 70's, there were three Japanese camera companies that produced their own glass. Besides Minolta, there was Asahi Pentax, and Nikon. Canon and Olympus did not make their own glass. I'm not sure about Pentax, but Nikon also has some of their lenses made by someone else.

[jamesdak]

Actually, archived is the wrong word. It was a google cached page that was taken from Minolta's webpage March 2nd of this year.

[jamesdak]

This discussion has peaked my curiousty on who actual made Minolta's lenses. You hear so many different stories that it makes it hard to tell the truth. With a little more google surfing tonight (hard to do with dial up only) I find this interesting tibit at the US Patent Office site. In 1998 Minolta was awarded 2 patents for glass manufacturing, in 2000 the were awarded another, in 2003 yet one more, and in 2004 the final one listed. So from just 1998 to 2004 they were awarded 5 patents from our government for glass manufacturing. Sounds like they must have been in that business still. Now I didn't find details on what the patents were for so I can't say for sure they were used for lens manufacturing.

[clinton_abe]

Jim- I won't be surprised if you were to find Minolta glass in a Tokina or Tamron lens. Many companies are inter-related by what they make and sell. Minolta probably makes glass and finished elements for a number of other companies. In turn, they could have easily had another company assemble the finished lenses. I'm sure Minolta made their 'G' series lenses in-house, but had other companies do some other lenses.

 

Why don't you look at the brochures Minolta released in later years. They no longer stated that they made all their own lenses. Minolta was proud of their lenses, so why wouldn't they 'brag' about it in the later years? Did Minolta all of a sudden become ashamed of their ability to make all their own glass and lenses, or was it that they could no longer claim to do so? What do you think makes more sense?

[jamesdak]

Who cares about what makes sense, everyone sees things in their own way. I want the facts, baby!! Speculation and rumors suck, the facts speak volumes :>)

[clinton_abe]

Jim- Go ahead and hunt all you want. Just be prepared for the truth, if and when, you find it. Hell, why don't you contact KonicaMinolta and ask them. Now that they're out of the business, perhaps, they'll be willing to tell you the 'truth'.

[Brian]

In connexion with this, Minolta was supplying lenses to Leica for some time (mostly zooms and mirror lenses for the R-series). I wonder if they were creaming off the best to go to Leica for re-badging, so had to buy in lenses to offer as their own brand. That would be funny.

[jamesdak]

Clinton - You read my mind, I did go hunting. With my Minolta lens made by "whoever". Much more fun to use your photo gear than to worry about who made it! Check out today's prey.<div></div>

[cmphoto1]

Rumor had it that Leica would receive a batch of 70-210 lenses in from Minolta and they would inspect them to "their standards." It could have very well been a pride thing.

 

I had a 35-135mm MD lens a while back. At the time, I thought it was understood that it was a Cosina lens. Not sure if that meant designed, built, or both.

 

I am sure there have been a fair number of the economy lenses that have been rebadged from somebody else. Why waste resources on them? It would surprise me if any of the higher performance lenses were designed by anybody but Minolta people.

 

chad

[ilkka]

Sony seems to have so much technology at its disposal that one hopes they will come up with an actual camera sometime this year. At this stage, lenses are optional since there is plenty of old glass around.

[ivo_stankus]

Sony owns both part of Tamron, and a minor part of KM's lens manufacturing capacities, so the new lenses will come from both of these sources. The Sakai plant that made the early AF lenses, then the G series lenses and also acted as an R&D center has moved to China, and is still partially owned by KM as well as the lens plant in Malaysia (that's the 51% Michael was speaking of). The transfer was also the reason why there was such a shortage of top glass from KM even before the January announcement, the new Chinese plant started making lenses only at the beginning of this year if I remember correctly. KM did make a majority of their own lenses. They bought raw optical glass from Zeiss (I think), but heavily modified it themselves - and were/are really good at it as they made a succesful business of making specialty glass for other manufacturers. Flashes - KM, Nikon, Canon, Sony etc (Metz is the most notable exception) are all made by the Matsushita (Panasonic) corporation so I don't think much will change in the near future, except maybe the hot-shoe. As for light meters, they were under photographic accessories on the KM site and as such are now marked as discontinued, just like film scanners - which is sad as both were top quality product lines.

[franka t.l.]

At this moment, it is really less of a concern to me who made lens for Sony DSLR. With enough resource poured in , any of KM or Tamron can produce 1st grade lens. its simply how much can Sony sell it at ( price point of entry ).

 

The most recent news post and interview by several Japanese News agency online and in print ( with sony ) had pretty much confirm that KM will still be making a school of lens for the upcoming Sony DSLR. And that there will be another Mfr also doing Lens for Sony. Very likely Tamron for the sconomy / entry models. There is always question about whether Sony & Zeiss will turn up a series of premium optics for the A mount, but at this stage of the market, its unlikely.

 

Just like any other system SLR/DSLR Lens, flash, and accessories are integral part of a whole setup and this conclude with a decent body to mate them onto. IMHO all is but a lost until the Body turn up.

[clinton_abe]

Ivo- Thank you for the information. I'd be a little bit concerned about a top of the line SONY lens that was marked as being 'Made in China', as I believe Canon and Nikon still make their highest quality lenses in Japan. Hopefully, that will be made-up by a lower price for the lenses made in China. As for the flashes, I knew they were made by an outside supplier, but did not know by who. When I posted that KM did not make their own flashes a while back, some posters jumped on my case. Just like when I posted that the 'DT' lenses were made by Tamron. Some posters, who will remain nameless, said it was a lie. However, now that I've shown the connection of Tamron to SONY, the idea doesn't seem so far-fetched.