Sony needed PMA

[james_frater]

Chris, Sony is well alive in the pro audio biz. They now own the whole Sonic Foundry line of software and a very well in depth into Audio

[cooper8168]

They barely manufacture anything themselves - no PCM machines (3348, 3324), no 800-

series mics (or anything professional for that matter), no recorders other than one semi-pro

mixer, virtually no hardware, no consoles (DMX-R100 discontinued two years ago). I

wouldn't call that well alive at all.

[clinton_abe]

"CF/CFII card or bust, cannot be anything else."

 

So, Jimmy, I guess you'll be buying another camera brand, when (not if) Sony's DSLR uses Memory Sticks? Do you have any Minolta/KM equipment you'll be dumping?

 

It was good to know ya, wouldn't want to be ya.

[cmphoto1]

Clinton, let me make sure I understand what you are saying. You are saying that if you are married to CF, you will be SOL with Sony. Correct?

 

CF is recognized as a more reliable format and the format of choice for every other pro level camera. Reliability is a HUFE issue with pros (which is why Canon�s top of the line accepts 2 CF cards and can write the same image to both cards at the same time) Also, pro photogs are comfortable with the format.

 

Sony�s first series of dSLRs will be CF-my speculation, but I would put money on it. If I am right and Sony then wants to move people (and pros) to stick, it will be very hard and expensive to re-educate and transfer users to the new memory format. That is, of course, if they can do it.

 

There are some things in cameras that people come to expect. The best example I can think of is putting the shutter release on the right hand. Imagine your reaction if somebody came out with a camera line that had the shutter release on the left hand. If pros are comfortable and secure with what they can expect from CF, I suspect they will have a similar (albeit, more mild) reaction to being forced to use stick.

 

And that is the basis of my argument. I am meeiing with 3 pros over the next 7 days. I am definitely going to ask now.

 

Sony has a history of forcing formats on people. Betamax comes to mind. A better format than VHS, but they couldn�t sell it because the market would not accept it. I was selling the first Sony VHS in 1989 after they gave up on the Beta format in the consumer market in 1988.

 

One would hope they learned. But then they came out with Minidisc. Another good format compared to the audio CD. Seen any minidisk recorders around lately? I think only Kenwood and Marantz (the same company) were the only ones to jump onboard. How many other camera makers are using Memory Stick?

 

Clinton, maybe you will be right. I suspect it will be at the expense of their market share goal.

 

chad

[clinton_abe]

"Clinton, let me make sure I understand what you are saying. You are saying that if you are married to CF, you will be SOL with Sony. Correct?"

 

Chad- I'm not sure what you mean by being "married to CF", or "you will be SOL with Sony".

 

However, Sony will probably have both Memory Stick and CF slots. What is wrong with that? Heck, maybe they'll surprise us and have two CF slots and one Memory Stick slot. I'm not saying the CF format isn't better, but Sony owns the Memory Stick format, or at least is its bigger supporter. I see that SanDisk is coming out with higher capacity Memory Sticks, maybe Sony is planning a surprise in the ability of the Memory Stick that will be released the same time as the DSLRs. You never know what Sony has planned.

 

But, I'm willing to put money up that the DSLRs will have a slot for the Memory Stick. I just hope it isn't another version of the Memory Stick, so that I can't use my current Memory Sticks.

[andrew robertson]

Sony DAT is still top of the line.

[andrew robertson]

"However, Sony will probably have both Memory Stick and CF slots. What is wrong with

that?"

 

Nothing's wrong with it, but knowing Sony they will surely cripple the CF slot so it can't

shoot RAW or something. This is the game they've played on their cameras that have both

slots.

 

Sony is fundamentally untrustworthy, and I think the real losers in all this will be the

people who have a large investment in Minolta gear. When you send your 7D in for a new

shutter and they want $900 for it, will you reevaluate your position? I know of somebody

(public access cable TV) who sent in their Sony 1" studio recorder in for a new head, and

the bill was almost $3000. $3000! That's about the cost of replacing the whole unit,

which was still current!

 

Sony is after your wallet. They don't give a crap about photography.

[james_frater]

I ain't dumping anything, I am buying. I have picked up some cheap stuff and having more fun with my 7D then ever before.

[clinton_abe]

Andrew- You really are obsessed with how much Sony charges for repairs, aren't you? But, you still haven't checked how much Canon or Nikon charges for repairs of their DSLRs. Everyone charges high prices for repairs.

[cmphoto1]

Clinton - :married to CF" - will only use cameras with CF slot. "SOL" ﾖ "crudola out of luck"

 

Your statement to Jimmy implies that you believe that Sony will not have a CF slot in their dSLR(s). I was just making sure I understood you correctly.

 

If it is a dual slot (stick and CF) I could live with that, as long as both were fully functional.

 

That could make for some interesting memory stick promotional offers ﾖ "buy the pro model and we'll replace your CF cards with brand new sticks for free"

 

No fully functional CF slot, and I am buying a D200. And, no, none of you can have my A mount lenses for free. I am not an idiot.

 

chad

[clinton_abe]

Chad- If you had read my earlier response in this question thread, you'll see that I had said Sony would probably have slots for both MS and CF cards. I have always said that the Sony DSLR would have dual slots, even before KM's announcement. KM belonged to the CF group and they supposely were part of the CES display for CF, so if they had come out with a DSLR, it would have had a CF slot.

 

I just hope Sony doesn't come out with another version of their Memory Stick, which requires present users of MS to buy all new cards.

[andrew robertson]

"Andrew- You really are obsessed with how much Sony charges for repairs, aren't you?

But, you still haven't checked how much Canon or Nikon charges for repairs of their

DSLRs. Everyone charges high prices for repairs."

 

Clinton, Canon charges a pretty fair price for repair. A new shutter is $140 + labor ($100)

for my 10D. They do NOT have the track record that Sony does in the repair market.

Canon and Nikon have a lot of pros and others who rely upon their cameras, and they tend

to make fair repair prices a priority. Please, point me to discussions that prove otherwise

if you would. To be fair, I have heard about one case where Canon wanted to charge a lot

for a broken USM that was out of production.

 

But go ahead and step up to bat for Sony, a company that's famous for screwing you on

repairs. I'm sure you'll be able to justify whatever they charge to yourself.

[cmphoto1]

Clinton,

 

I did read it, which is why I wanted clarification. You seam to be saying two different things (one overtly, one implied)

 

I do my best to practive active listening. It reduices confusion.

 

One would hope that Sony sees the value in making a memory stick a meomory stick and any slots that they put on their camera reverse compatable.

 

chad

[cmphoto1]

The more I think about this, the less I disagree with the title of this post. Did Sony need PMA?

 

The only reason I can think of is to keep us loyal Minolta people from jumping ship. Are there enough of us anymore to really have an impact?

 

Plus, with all the noise at PMA from the other manufacturers, would an announcement of planned specs (no mockup behind glass, no models for the reasons listed in other posts) been minimized if not lost all together?

 

Might just be better to wait until after the hoopla dies down and when everyone else's attention can be grabbed.

 

Like at the beginning of April.

 

I think the damage is already done. A significant portion of those who hung on through the wait for the 7D will still be around in 30-45 days.

 

My thoughts.

 

chad

[clinton_abe]

Chad- Your confusion is due to the fact that you are taking a particular post out of context. Jimmy had made a statement and I responded, then Jimmy made another statement that was along the line of his previous post, and I responded to that one. I did not feel the need to repeat the full text of my earlier post, where I stated that the Sony DSLR would probably have both a MS slot and a CF slot. And this is where you got confused.

 

This is not entirely your fault as this forum only allows you to see the original question and not the complete message thread when posting a response. So, unless you take notes, it is easy to get confused. (This has happened to me.) Plus, the 'conversation' may take place over several days. In this case, I think you needed to read a post I did some time on 2/28, in response to what Jimmy had said about the Memeory Stick. Then read Jimmy's next post, and finally my follow-up post, just before you made that post which confused me. Once you do that, your confusion should clear-up and you will see what my position is and always has been.

[james_frater]

My position is rock solid for anyone who cares, No memory stick for me, I did not invest in $1000 Aussie dollars worth of memory cards to be screwed by a Sony.

[clinton_abe]

So, Jimmy, if the Sony DSLR has both a Memory Stick slot and a solt for a CF card, what are you going to do with the slot for the Memory Stick? And, if it only accepts Memory Sticks, will you be selling your equipment? If you do, what equipment do you have that's interesting?

 

Note to Chad: This post is done in a humorous vein, and should not be taken as a change in my position that the Sony DSLR will have both a Memory Stick and CF slot.

[cmphoto1]

Jimmy,

 

Hmmm. Another little hidden cost of digital photography? How long before your CF cards cant keep up with the technological advances?

 

When I jump in during the next 60 days, I figure I will need to spend about $350 on cards. 3-2gig cards should do the trick unless a trip is in the works. Then, I might get a wallet.

 

I know people like the hyper-capacity cards, but I know a number of pros who prefer smaller cards for security (one card fails, you don't loose the entire shoot)

 

chad

[clinton_abe]

Boy, did I make a BIG boo boo!!! I noticed that in my posts regarding memory cards, that I said the Sony DSLR would probably have a CF slot in addition to a slot for a Memory Card. It should have been a slot for a SD card. I say this because KM was a member of the SD group. But, who knows, maybe the camera will have three slots, one each for CF, SD, and Memory Stick. This way everyone will be happy, or so I hope.

 

On another tropic regarding PMA. A friend of mine went to the show, and he said that there was no 'funeral' for Minolta at the show. KM didn't attend. He thinks KM did have a hotel suite, where they would of tried to calm dealers afraid that they would be stuck with stuff that won't be repaired, and other concerns.