What handholdable 6x9 should I blow my grant money on?

[sandy_sorlien]

I have an Arca Swiss 6x9FC Metric and adore it. However, because I am

shooting Main Streets (individual buildings as well as streetscapes) I

often want to run into the middle of the street to get a shot quickly

without being run down. I have some studdly orange traffic cones, but

SUV drivers on cell phones just don't notice them.

 

So I want a second camera that is handholdable, perhaps with some

shift like the Horseman 6x9, but maybe the Fuji 69 and a short

stepladder. Anyone have personal experience with those? A friend said

the Fuji rangefinder shows the lens in part of the frame so you can't

see the whole composition. To paraphrase an earlier thread title, How

Annoying Is That?

 

I suppose this is an MF question but the architecture photographers

are here on LF so you know what is necessary.

 

Thanks,

Sandy

[jeffrey_scott]

Look for a second hand Plaubel Proshift 6x9 camera. It has some rise and shift and uses a separate viewfinder that moves with the movements. It has a built in 47 SA if I recall.

[doug_dolde]

If you want the best why not an Alpa? Big bucks but it's 6x9 with shift.

[ellis_vener_photography]

Fuji GSW690III. The protruding lens i nthe lower right corner just isn't very annoying; some princesses just have to find peas in their beds.

[robert_fisher]

Ellis is a pro, he says GSW690. I am not a pro but I also say GSW690. My GSW made my SWC905 look like crap.

[golliegwillie]

Mamiya 23 Press Camera with 15 degrees of tilt available on the back. The film holder is first rate, and there's a few really nice lenses for this camera.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Moscova 5; and spend a dollar or two on Liquilex for bellows light leaks; and the rest on film.

[jim_galli4]

Sandy, Take a look at the old Mamiya Universal. Yes they are old and funky looking by today's standards but they have a wonderful feel hand held. They were designed as press cameras and so hand holding was by design. The 50mm f6.3 lens is worth the whole system. It's a Japanese copy of a Zeiss Biogon and covers 6X9 ultra sharp edge to edge from f8 on. And yes the goofy looking S shaped film holders (6X7 and 6X9) have been proven to be the flattest film plane of any mf rollfilm design. It's all I'll use for color work. It's like a big ugly Leica.

[d_g]

After looking to such a camera, i've find that the plaubel was too limited (one lens only), same for pentax 67 75 shift lens...

i think that you should look at "the new cambo wide DS", or silvestri H, or ebony finesse all of them with the silvestri finder on it...

the good point with the DS is that it's a standard 4x5 back, so you can use super rollex 4x5, horseman 4x5, and polaroid 45 back on it !

[george_jiri_loun]

Sandy, the GSW 690 is a workhorse as good as it is simple. I like the shutter release lock on it and I appreciate the simple loading. The protruding lens in the right lower corner of the viewfinder is nothing that bothers me too much. It's a solidly built camera and yet light weight. But of course, it's a no trills camera...

[emmanuel_bigler]

As far as used cameras are concerned, nobody mentioned yet the "baby" 6x9 Linhof technika and its variants, Linhof Press

cameras. In the book on medium and large format photography by Roger Hicks and Frances Schultz, there are several examples of nice pictures taken with a "baby" Linhof as well as with the Graflex XL camera.

I've recently seen a Linhof press 6x9 for sale in Paris with a 53mm biogon, a 100 planar and a 180 sonnar all on helical mount. So no shift.

 

As new, on the high side of the budget, you could have a look at the Silvestris, specifically

designed for architecture on 6x9 with front rise. They can certainly be used hand-held although precise levelling with an extreme wide-angle would be difficult without a tripod.

[tim_hicks]

If you want speed and convenience the choice is very limited - probably the Fuji 69 models.

 

But if you are prepared to try an older folder and you dont need a wide angle lens or 'modern' features like lever wind and coupled rangefinders, there are some interesting possibilities. Here in the UK the Ensign Selfix (cheap) and Autorange (expensive)820 models can produce impressive results with their Xpres (Tessar-like)lenses despite being nearly 50 years old. The Zeiss Super Ikonta (expensive) Ikonta and Nettar types can be very good - I have a Nettar from 1937 with an uncoated Tessar lens and produces excellent results - I paid £17 for it. In the US some Kodak folders have very good Ektar lenses but unfortunately they are often designed for no longer obtainable 620 film (same size film as 120 but smaller spool)

 

It's surprising how quickly you can get used to guestimating distances and using a simple frame finder. The lens is what really counts.

[chuck_pere]

You could try a 2x3 Graphic. Cheap enough that you could just resell it if it doesn't work out. You also may be able to use some of your existing lenses if they fit the board. Or lot's of good lenses available.

[sandy_sorlien]

Oh you guys are great. This is a big help. I forgot to mention that I am partial to the 65mm lens -- on the Arca I find that I use that one much more than the 47 or 80. (So the Plaubel would be out.) After reading your posts I am leaning very heavily to the Fuji (Light weight is also appealing since I will be carrying two cameras now). I just wish it had a bit of rise. I find that over the past few months, when I've been using a dinky little Olympus 2020 digital to take "sketches" of possible subjects before setting up the view camera, that often the sketch pictures are better. Unfortunately they will not print better, and often I have to fix the keystoning in Photoshop. I suppose if I get a shot with the Fuji that would be a masterpiece with corrected keystoning, I could scan it in, correct it, write it to film, and then make my C prints....?

 

Cheers,

Sandy

[glenn_kroeger]

Sandy:

 

If rnagefinder focusing speed and lens quality are upmost, have you eliminated a Mamiya7. Although 6x7 not 6x9, a small crop fixes the aspect ratio.

 

If 6x9 and shift are most important, and you can't afford the Alpa, what about the Horseman SW69

 

http://www.horsemanusa.com/pd_frame08.html

 

You can get your favorite lenses in helical focus mounts.

[david_goldfarb]

You can fix that keystoning in the darkroom without going to digital by tilting the easel. If you have an enlarger with a tilting lens stage, you can even use the Scheimpflug principle to keep it in focus without having to stop down too far.

 

Sure it's better to have shift in the field (the Cambo Wide DS looks really attractive for this), but I use the easel trick all the time for those impromptu architecturals made with a fixed-lens camera.

[tedharris]

Hello Sandy,

 

I am popping in a bit late and you have gotten most of it by now. Some of my

personal observations may be useful as I have used the Palubel, the

Universal, the Graphic XL, 'baby' Linhofs, 6x9 Horseman, Fuji GSW690/

GW690.

 

The Plaubel has superb glass but is heavy.

 

I remember the Universal as a great street camera, everything the earlier post

said. The trick will be to find one in good working order since you are looking

at a camera that has been out of production for ~ 30 years.

 

The XL was/is not to my taste for work where it gets banged around. Just too

delicate. The rubber nipples on the focusing collar are way too prone to

breakage and when that happens the accuracy of the rangefinder is gone till

repaired. The Graphic film backs are quirky and do not always give good film

flatness unless finely tuned.

 

The 6x9 technical cameras are also sort of heavy (with the exception o f the

Horseman series) and I find them to be less than speedy for �street� work.

Having said that, it is all a matter of getting used to this style again. When I

was a kid I shot football games using a 4x5 Speed Graphic so there is

absolutely no reason why these �little cousins� can�t do the job for you. You

did however indicate in your second post that weight is a consideration since

you will be carrying two cameras. I would also assume that size,

compactness, etc. is also a consideration. This brings up the point of

rethinking your whole field outfit. What I mean is that if you go with a

Horseman, Linhof or Wista 4x5 (the metal technical fields) you can set up a

second body for exclusive 6x9 operation and have the rangefinder ready for

that purpose. Meanwhile you have lots of interchangeable parts if both of

your bodies are 4x5 (not necessarily true of one is 4x5 and one 6x9 and the

Horseman series does not make a 4x5 with a rangefinder). Just something

else to think about.

 

Having said all that I use a Fuji GS690II (I like the 90 mm better than the 65)

and have been using same for close to 10 years. It is almost always with me

as well as a 4x5 or 8x10 kit. It is fast, lightweight (as already noted) and an

ergonomic delight. The rangefinder is large and bright. Having spent years

using Leicas I find the 690 to be darn near the equal of the in the M�s. As I

have said in other threads here, the GW690 has saved my bacon on a

number of commercial assignments or at moments when shooting

landscapes where I just couldn�t get a field camera setup in time or I thought I

was done shooting for the day and had packed up all the gear only to see that

last incredible

 

bit of light ��

�

 

Ted

[armin_seeholzer]

Hi Sandy

 

I vote for the Alpa to:http://www.alpa.ch/

It is swiss made and some of the Magnum Photographers work with it.

It is build for 3-4 livetimes!

But not cheap!

Good luck!

[erik_gould1]

Sandy,

I would also recommend the Fuji 6x9. I have one of each, a

90mm and the 65mm. Fast, light, great lenses. Easy to load.

Yes, you see the lens in the corner of the viewfinder on the wide

(like a leica), but I shoot urban landscape as you do and I have

never been surprised by anything showing up on the film that I

didn't see. You know what is in front of you, after all. Small crown

graphic? I tried that, but movements are very limited and graphic

roll film backs just can't keep the film flat over the 6x9 format.

With a short lens, you don't so much get an out of focus area, but

some strange bowing and bending of straight lines. Very odd

with a building facade. I have found the fuji to be great for

jumping out of the car, shooting between traffic and getting out

before being killed. Also good for walking down the street and

tucking away so as not to draw too much attention to myself.

that's my 2 cents,anyway.

[Troll]

Getr a Monopod, and have Grimes put an accessory shoe on your Arca/Swiss to fit a Graphic finder.

[jim_galli4]

An addenda to my post about the older Mamiya system. They had a Polaroid back that accepts the packfilm 665, 667, 669 and 108 style films. 665 is the pos/ neg. VERY useful sometimes and boosts the format to 3.25 X 4.25 which would vignette a lot of the lenses. They made a 75 specifically for the bigger format that is superb. The tiny 65 was a double gauss and also excellent. Still it sounds like perhaps the GSW 690 with the 65 is what you're after. The Mamiya's were indeed heavy.

[roger krueger]

I love my Mamiya Universal, and it's not hard to find one in good user condition--they're just too hard to break!

 

The 65/6.3 is a pretty good lens, but the 75 and 50 are better. An issue with the 65mm is that the finder is absolutely useless for glasses wearers. (the 50 and 75, however, have the best finders I've ever used) Luckily 65mm on 6 x 9 is exactly the same angle as 28mm of 35mm, so you've got a wide choice of other finders; Voightlanders in particular are decent, available and cheap.

 

Of course, I believe with the Fuji 65mm the finder is integral, which is MUCH more convenient.

 

The 15 degrees of tilt on the Super 23 will do nothing for you--you need rise not tilt.

 

The real drawbacks to the Mamiya are no rise, it's easy to make mistakes (absolutely no interlocks, not even double-exposure), and there's no meter, so you have to live with a handheld meter.

[michael_alpert1]

Sandy,

 

You've already received many good responses, but I have one more idea that may be worth consideration. I sometimes use a Linhof PC612 and find it very useful for quick architectural and landscape photography. (I have found that it is especially useful in cold and snowy weather, when a tripod is impractical.) The current model has 58mm and 135mm lenses. It has built-in rise which is well thought-out; and you can turn the camera vertically to gain great perspective control if you are willing to crop a square or similar-sized image from the top part of your negative. You need to scale-focus, but I find that I very rarely misjudge distances to an extent that is significant.

[ed_candland1]

Here�s another take that�s a bit different. I don�t know what the exact conditions are where your working so I might be all wet on this, but why do you use a slightly longer lens with a high tripod and shot from across the street over the cars. It seem like shooting something as precise as architecture, hand held, while dodging speeding cars couldn�t be the best of conditions. Just a thought.

 

Ed,

[sandy_sorlien]

I like the creative thinking of Bill Mitchell and Ed! Ed, I do have a very tall tripod and a stepstool to get myself up as high as it gets. I will order a lensboard for my 240 G-Claron and that should give me more options, as you suggest. But sometimes the best vantage point is literally the middle of the street. Even with Bill's monopod, I may not be able to work fast enough sometimes. For one thing, changing lenses takes time and it will be good to have a fixed 65 which I can just grab in a second. So I think it's the Fuji....but wow that Alpa is gorgeous -- if it were my only camera, I'd consider it.

 

Keep the replies coming, though.... I have not called Badger yet!

 

Cheers,

Sandy