FPS Meter?

[ric1]

<p>Thanks. Weave will be the transfer set-up, working on that. The only proper lens I used was the fixed 75mm telephoto, the others were modern. I reckon I'm losing between 1 and 2 stops on the Pan Cinor plus the reflex H-16. However the asa 100 film can tolerate that, being so much more light sensitive than earlier film stocks. I still need a more accurate light meter reading - reflective or incident - to allow me to compensate for the missing stops of light, which brings me back to the Sekonic :)</p>

<p>Also, Craig said: "Set your meter at ISO 100 and the shutter speed on the meter at 1/40 and take a reading. That will give you your f-stop". <br>

<br>

1/40 on the Gossen equates to about 18fps, they're linked, inner to outer dials. That reads off at just under f-5.6 when the light meter is set at asa 100. The Gossen is calibrated 1/30 to 1/60 so again it is tricky to be precise for values inbetween. Hopefully I can actually key some definite numbers into the Sekonic to make things a little easier.</p>

[ric1]

<p>There is no weave on the H-16, the film pressure plate is removed, cleaned and checked before each shoot. What is being read as weave is again probably the effect of hand processing which leads to uneven development across the film plane. I'm partial to this effect, it reminds me I am using photographic emulsion, same holds for projector transfers which capture the mechanical ambience of a live film projector. Many thanks for the helpful insights on metering and the H-16 with its exposure characteristics.</p>

<p>I have a Bolex manual from 1953 which gives 16fps as 1/30 and at 24fps it is 1/45; but it does not tell you what the shutter angle is. For example, another (later?) manual [swiss, nd] gives the value at 16fps at 1/40. Nor can I find anything on the mirror / prism mechanism, whether this can be altered to allow more light into the H-16. There certainly doesn't seem to be a control on the Bolex to achieve this. The speed dial on the H-16 is variable from 8 all the way up to 64fps.</p>

<p>For asa 100 film, if I shot today at 1/30 - 1/40 a fixed aperture would push me towards the f.16 edge of the diaphragm. Out in the open I'd be off the scale, so I employ ND filters to reduce the sensitivity of the film. I guess exposure is now down to experimentation and fine tuning.</p>

[AJG]

<p>Ric--The beamsplitter in the Bolex RX models is permanently installed although a competent repair person could probably remove it. Its effect on exposure is fixed and can simply be compensated for by adding a third of a stop to your exposure, which could easily be done via the ASA/ISO setting on your meter. As for your exposure issue (too much light to avoid stopping down to f/22 all the time) you could get neutral density gel to put into the gel holder behind the lens mount. This will have the great advantage of not darkening the finder of your zoom lens so that you can still focus easily, with the down side of not being aware that you have a filter in the optical path. I would set an appropriately lower ASA/ISO on your meter to compensate for this so that you can directly read out the correct f/stop. </p>

[ric1]

<p>Thanks Andrew,</p>

<p>Think I got there but will be crying in my beer when I see the footage if I haven't :D</p>

<p>a) I shoot with an ND2 reducing the speed of my asa 100 film to 50 - otherwise I'm off the aperture scale.<br>

b) There is a 0.25 light loss due to mirror-prism plus 0.8 of a stop due to ‘T’ value of zoom. These two factors taken together effectively lose me another stop, so my film is rated at asa 25 on any meter. This should get me a reasonable exposure. This was the setting I used last weekend. I am still going to sacrifice 100' of film to exposure experimentation after I have processed the current project though, results should be interesting. </p>

<p>Still trying to get my head round using fractions of a second instead of fps because it is so novel. But using fractions would be kinder on the eye with the Gossen because they are more spread out around the edge of the dial (am long sighted).</p>

<p>This site tells me at 16fps my <em>(shutter angle 143-4 degrees)</em> Bolex exposure time will be 1/45. I set the Gossen to 25asa today and the 1/45 read off gave me reasonable f.stops, so far so good. </p>

<p><a href="http://bolexh16user.net/ExposureAdvice.htm">http://bolexh16user.net/ExposureAdvice.htm</a></p>

 

[craig_shearman1]

<p>That's a very interesting website. Had not seen that one before.<br /><br />The description I read of your model of the H-16 says it has a filter slot and that it comes after the viewfinder system. If it does, it might be easier to put an ND2 in there rather on the lens to keep the viewfinder image brighter. You've had problems with under exposure but I assume you've checked the slot to make sure there's not a filter of some type already in there.</p>

[ric1]

<p>Thanks Craig,</p>

<p>I use a variable ND on the lens with a minimum value of ND2. The filter slot in the Bolex now has an empty filter holder in it. I use the variable ND filter to allow me to fade out shots and make lap dissolves, since I have no variable shutter angle control on this 56 model, produced in 58. Once upon a time there was a variable diaphragm made to compensate for the lack of variable shutter, but I have never seen one available and in any case, I doubt it would fit the 17-85mm zoom. Prior to the filter I made lap dissolves with my hand over the lens :-o</p>

[ric1]

<p>Sekonic L-358</p>

<p>Help.</p>

<p>How do you set for f/s film speed please - no matter how many times I depress the Mode button and revolve the Jog Wheel all I get are 'T' values, the character f/s does not appear, (neither 's' for seconds).</p>

<p>Seems to be defaulted to 'T' values - how can I find the corresponding f/s and 's' values please?</p>

<p>Apart from that it seems to work :)</p>

[AJG]

<p>Hi Ric, I just looked at the L 358 manual on line and it says that to set the ISO (ASA) hold down the ISO button and turn the jog wheel until you get the setting that you want. This is similar to my L-718 where you hold down the ISO button and use the up or down buttons to set the ISO you need. The mode dial will do other useful things for you, like setting shutter or aperture priority or flash modes. You have the luxury of being able to have two ISO settings that you can toggle back and forth with the L 358, I just have one on my L 718. Good luck!</p>

[ric1]

<p>Thanks, the ISO no problem, I set that to 25 in about half a minute after studying the manual. My problem is, is that I need to set my f.p.s at 16 or my speed at 1/45 or thereabout. How do I do this please? The manual just says <em>depress mode button to select ambience then revolve jog wheel beyond 8000 then you will find fps values,</em> by my jog wheel goes from about 60 to 250 then back to 60 again, round & round in circles - f/s, fps, s or m characters never showing on the lcd display.</p>

<p>Been at this for about 2 hours now.</p>

[AJG]

<p>Hi Ric, the most direct way to deal with this will be to figure out what combination of ISO values (adjustable to 1/3 f/stop) and shutter speed gives you the shutter speed your camera has when set to your 16 2/3 FPS. If you need 1/45 to accurately represent what the camera/beam splitter is giving you, and your film is effectively ISO 25 because of a 2 stop ND filter, then setting the ISO to 20 and the shutter speed to 1/30 should get very close. I would ignore the FPS settings on your meter, because they will be designed for standard 180 degree shutters, so they will be for slower speeds than you actually have with your camera. Note also that the f/stop readout is in tenths of an f/stop--f/11.2 is f/11 plus 2/10 of a stop toward f/16. One of the reasons I prefer my older L 718 is because the readout has a semi-circle with points at 1/10 of a stop, so it is easy and intuitive for me to think about where in between readings fall, especially on my 4x5 lenses that don't have click stops and are marked in 1/3 stop increments.<br>

Try not to get too hung up on the utmost precision at the metering step--you're working with a 50 year old camera with a spring wind motor that probably was within a percentage pint or two fresh out of the box, and is probably further from that now, depending on how warm or cold it is, etc. If you're within 1/2 stop you're probably doing well given the limitations of your equipment.</p>

[ric1]

<p>Thanks Andrew,</p>

<p><br /> What confuses me is that I'm working with a fixed frame/shutter speeds of 16fps & 1/45 respectively. I have frozen the ISO at 25 (or 20 as you suggest) but I cannot fix the shutter speed at 1/45 or 1/30. Which is what I want - the ISO/ShSpeed/Ap triangle - because then the Sekonic ISO+ShSpeed would tell me which <em>aperture</em> to set: which is what I want.</p>

<p>I just re-set the ISO to 20, no worries.</p>

<p>So given that 1/30 sh speed & ISO 20 must be static for me, is there no way I can lock these values on the Sekonic to determine my aperture? Otherwise the ambient light will be telling me to constantly re-set my shutter speed to match an optimal light/ap/ISO triangle, expecting me to modify my shutter speed of 1/30, which of course I cannot do?</p>

<p>Sorry, this is a learning curve for me! :)</p>

<p>Wait up - the jog wheel was locked - game changer!! :-o</p>

<p>photo.net/filters-bags-tripods-accessories-forum/00H3au</p>

 

[ric1]

<p><em>Update:</em> it's working - I got the ISO at 20 and the jog wheel is allowing me to run up and down the speeds till I come to 1/30, then the Sekonic computes the f-stop. <em>It works!!</em> :D</p>

<p>Next question - are we sure ambient is the way to go for landscape photography / motion picture filming please? For example, how could I 'ambient light' a mountain range? Extreme example perhaps but it illustrates my unease abandoning reflected for ambient metering. I took two reading for an outdoor subject today, one ambient, one reflected - same subject - and they were quite different.</p>

<p>Many thanks btw :)</p>

[AJG]

<p>With my L 718 in shutter preferred mode, the ISO stays fixed on whatever I set it until I change it or the battery dies. Likewise, the shutter speed stays where it is set in shutter preferred mode. When you take a reading, the only thing that will change is the f/stop readout. You should have the same mode on the L 358. I know you're probably used to the shorthand of setting your FPS on your current meter, but once you get used to setting the shutter speed instead the FPS you'll be fine, and you can get to making films again!</p>

[AJG]

<p>I'm glad you got it--disregard my last reply. As for the ambient question, your choices are for ambient or flash. Obviously, ambient is what you need. I think you're looking at reflected vs. incident, which is a different question. Reflected meters measure the light bouncing off the scene whereas incident meters measure the light falling on the scene. When you're outdoors, just make sure that the incident dome is in the same light as your scene and point it toward the camera lens (don't stand in the shade to take your reading if you're filming a sunlit scene). If the light is the same, you don't need to walk right up to your subject as you do with artificial light sources, since the inverse squares law isn't relevant with the sun. The nice thing about incident metering is that you don't have to worry about very dark or very light scenes fooling the meter; the bad part can be when you're outdoors shooting at a distance and can't place the incident dome in the same position as the subject. You are undoubtedly aware of reflected meter problems--being fooled by a bright sky, back lighting, etc., and incident metering usually will finesse those. I use my Sekonic as an incident meter all the time in the studio with flash, but for 4x5 landscape work I use a spot meter and never mind not having an incident meter. And since you've been successful with reflected metering, you should probably continue with it. Good luck and send us a link when you finish your next project!</p>

[ric1]

<p>Thanks Andrew,</p>

<p>My current film still on the Bolex is 100% experimental - even if I were convinced I had the exposure right. When I have processed the footage I will shoot a straight 100' using both meters, Gossen & Sekonic, then compare results. I have a lot of confidence in the Sekonic already, indoors it is simplicity itself to operate (touch wood), in the field anything can happen of course. It has been a long haul to calibrate the zoom to the camera but I am going to stick with it until I get consistent results.</p>

<p>At some stage I am going to need some fixed reflex lenses as well - for informal, hand-held filming, and I guess only the vintage lenses made for reflex H-16's will do? I have used c-mount video lenses on the Bolex but you can never be sure whether they are <em>exactly</em> right for the flange depth on the lens socket.</p>

<p>The advantage of a video lens for me is that you can close the diaphragm to zero, so do fade outs & ins.</p>

[AJG]

<p>According to Bolex, you'll need the RX marked lenses for 50 mm and shorter--I have shot 16 mm film with both the Switar and Yvar prime lenses and Berthiot prime lenses marked RX with good results. I also had an adapter that allowed use of 42 mm Pentax/Praktica screw mount and got nice results from a Yashica 50 mm f/1.4 lens that I owned at the time, so it seemed to me that 25 mm and shorter focal lengths were more critical.</p>

[ric1]

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>Developed film (first stage) the exposure is much improved after following your advice, thank you.</p>

<p><img src="http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag110/r_i_c_236/Netley_Panorama1_zpsprygivcr.jpg" alt="" /></p>

[AJG]

<p>Glad things are working out well for you--good luck on your project.</p>

[ric1]

<p>Thanks Andrew,</p>

<p>Not quite there yet, I intend to tone the footage.</p>

<p>I may become a regular here because the only colour film I can find is asa 200 & I want to shoot some night time fairground scenes with it. I want trail effects which will mean allowing more light into the camera, how might I achieve this please?</p>

<p>Night shots possibly means I can dispense with the all the filters I'm using, even at double the film speed. I'd be using thumb-sized fixed lenses, so I shouldn't be losing any light to the optics as I do with the enormous Pan Cinor zoom.</p>

[AJG]

<p>By trail effects do you mean the look of objects moving during the exposure? If so, you may need to film at a slower FPS, which will mean a slower shutter speed and effectively more light to the film. You're right that primes will lose a lot less light so that you won't lose most of a stop the way you do with the Pan Cinor with its beamsplitter finder and complex design with single layer coating of its optics.</p>

[ric1]

<p>Thanks, that is very good news because my lowest speed of 8fps is roughly half my normal film speed of 16&2/3, so it should make transferring the result to my computer okay.</p>

<p>I take it the primes mean I can meter the night shots at asa200 straight?</p>