Looking For The Right Computer

[mark_thompson9]

<p>Hi everyone<br>

The reason I've put this into the beginner section is that I don't really know too much about computers. I know how to operate a Windows PC and I'm just learning Lightroom and Photoshop. The problem is that my current computer is not quite cutting it. It's an i5 processor with 8 GB ram and 2x 500gb hard drives. It's adequate but not spectacular and I find myself putting off editing batches of photos because it's just a little laggy in doing what I need.</p>

<p>So with that in mind I need a new PC - I need a desktop PC including monitor / keyboard / mouse etc. My budget is approximately $1,000 although I could probably stretch that to $1,500 if it was going to get me so much more. I understand I need an i5 (or equivalent) at least 16gb ram and at least one SSD?</p>

<p>Aside from that I'm fondling around in the dark of the web and not really getting anywhere. I know not to buy straight off the shelf (Mac aside) so I'm obviously going to have to go either custom build - either by doing it myself or paying someone else to do it. Labour will take away some of the budget available for parts so I'm really hoping to do it myself if I can source the relevant parts. I don't imagine it's too difficult if I have all the pieces in front of me.</p>

<p>The problem is that when I look online at custom building PC sites I'm presented with such a list of options that I get terrified of ordering the wrong things and wasting my precious budget. So some general guidance on actual pieces of hardware to purchase and what's essential and what's not would be most ideal. As I understand it, key components:</p>

<p>- RAM (at least 16gb) - Is there different types of RAM?!<br />- Processor - I know there's Intel i3-i5-i7 but I have no idea what the AMD equivalents are and I know that even some i5's are better than others for example. I've read good things about AMD for those on a budget but what exactly am I looking at and what should I be paying?<br />- Hard drive / optical drive - What's the difference? How I know what to purchase and what's the best way to set up for Lightroom use?<br />- Graphics card - No idea on this one. I know it's not super important but still no idea if I can just chuck the cheapest in there or not?<br />- Case / Keyboard / Mouse / Monitor / Cooling Fans etc, etc - what else do I need and do these things matter?<br /><br /><br>

Any help would be so appreciated.</p>

[JosvanEekelen]

<p>I never worried much about hardware details so I can't give you a full answer but:</p>

<ul>

<li>IMHO your system should be able to run LR adequately. Batch processing always costs time so prepare for drinking some coffee or... I run LR 6 on a Core Duo 8GB + SSD system and it's ok for the moment. The rest of your system may be important as well, are you running 64 bits Windows? I have upgraded the system with an SSD + 4 GB RAM extra (coming from 4 GB) and it did help.</li>

<li>Harddrive/Optical: HDD is for daily use, Optical disks for storage, backup etc. SSD for keeping the OS + program up to speed.</li>

<li>Graphics card: LR's develop module and some of PS (don't know which part) uses the graphics card. Better check whether the Graphics card supports LR/PS before making the decision. (Mine doesn't so I can't comment on the speed improvement)</li>

<li>Processor: Intel's i5 and i7 come in different flavours, it is my understanding that the exact model is more important than i5 or i7.</li>

</ul>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>Hi Mark,<br /> I'm not 100% fully in tune with US pricing, so I'll try to reason along the lines of your budget, but apologies if I stray above...<br /> Yes, the base specs you mention are good: Core i5/i7, 16GB RAM and a SSD are the comfortable spot to be. I wouldn't dismiss pre-built systems, though. This configuration you mention isn't "exotic" so it's quite possibly found on the shelf. Custom builds - even if you do so yourself - are not necessarily cheaper, and warranty can get more messy to deal with. However, it does give you full control over the quality of each component. But, do not dismiss options from large manufacterers as HP, Acer or Dell as they may have exactly what you want for a decent price.</p>

<ul>

<li><em>CPU</em>: current AMD processors aren't quite competitive with the higher end Intels (Core i5/i7). Personally, I think the Core i5 is better price/performance value, and given your budget probably the best choice. Else, for AMD, look for the A10-7850 or A10-7870, which could make a fine choice; the FX CPUs are somewhat faster, but consume more power and require a seperate graphics card, so they do not end up cheaper in any way. Buy the boxed CPU, which includes the needed cooling fan, and both brands deliver a perfectly decent one at the moment.</li>

<li><em>Hard drive versus optical drive</em> - they're not the same thing. OPtical drives are DVD drives. They are still handy, though not essential (you can install Windows from a USB stick, and download all other software). Hard disks are the internal storage. Ideally: one SSD (128-256GB) which stores Windows and your programs, and one normal hard disk (2 to 4TB) for files.</li>

<li><em>Graphics card</em>: in Lightroom 6 and PS CC it can help speed specific actions up; but it's not essential. Both Core i5 or AMD A10 have a graphics card integrated, so I wouldn't spend anything on it at the moment. You can always upgrade later.</li>

<li><em>Missing Item 1</em> - You miss the PSU (power supply) in the list of needs - and this is an important piece. Get a good quality one, cheap PSUs are a headache (noisy and not reliable enough). Seasonic, Enermax are good brands to look at. Some casings have a PSU integrated. For a system as this, aim for a PSU minimally rated at 350W, which should be comfortably enough.</li>

<li><em>Missing Item 2</em> - Other thing you miss, most vital, is a mainboard. The choice of mainboard depends on the CPU, and it "dictates" the type of memory. For intel, there are different 'generations' of Core i5 around, which require different mainboards with different chipsets on them. The situation for AMD is a lot easier. Good brands for mainboard generically are Asus, MSI, Gigabyte. (You will always find arguments and people who had bad samples, and say brand X is crap - ignore it as it's all based on a stastical sample of 1, which is pretty invalid).<br />Mainboard exist in different sizes, most regular sizes are ATX and mATX. The latter is smaller, but typically contains enough connectors to do all needed, and it allows you smaller casing, if that is a concern. If you do not mind a big box, any will do.</li>

<li><em>Not needed</em> - Cooling fans; whatever is needed comes with the CPU and your casing. A system with these specs doesn't need massive cooling, it won't run very hot.</li>

</ul>

<p>Roughly then: a Core i5-4460 or 4440, 16GB of DDR3-1600 DIMMs, mainboard with Intel H97 or Z97 chipset, a 128GB SSD (Samsung, Intel, Crucial) and a 2TB hard disk (WD Green), a nice looking case with 350W power supply, and that should leave enough money for a Dell Ultrasharp 24" IPS LCD (good value for money screens). Mouse and keyboard are personal, but you cannot go very wrong with a Microsoft or Logitech set there.</p>

[mark_thompson9]

<p>Thank you Jos, thank you Wouter.<br>

You have both helped enormously and I feel so much more confident in going forwards now. I understand a lot more and it also allows me to do more research as initially the more I read the more confused I got. This has put me into a place of knowing and I really do appreciate the assistance. What a great forum this is.<br>

I just have one more question... how would this set up compare to the entry level imac? I'm not fussy about brand and I could easier learn a new system and well, they just look cool ;-) I know the specs aren't the same and Macs are <em>generally</em> more reliable but is it worth it? I'm not asking for a Mac Vs PC debate but I'm just interested in the best bang for buck.<br>

Also, not in the US... Australian dollars - so worth even less!</p>

[mark_thompson9]

<p>I've just gone through and added all of these components to a well known Australian components shop and it's come in at $1,384 without delivery! I realised that I also have to add a wireless network card and once that's it it'll come out at nearly bang on the $1,500 budget.<br>

<br /><br />If you lived closer I would be taking you out for beer, good sir!</p>

[goldbergbarry]

<p>There is nothing wrong with buying off-the-shelve PCs. Not sure where you heard that but it is wrong. I am worried for you since you said that you don't know a lot about computers that building one from scratch may be challenging. <br>

I am very technical however I would never recommend that someone build a PC from scratch. IMO, I would buy an off-the-shelf PC for $1,000 - $1,500, which includes a warranty for when things go wrong. Just stay with a name brand, e.g., Dell, HP, etc.<br>

Wish you the best in whatever you decide.</p>

[mark_thompson9]

<p>Hi Barry</p>

<p>Thank you for the feedback. I should probably clarify with what I mean. I'm an experienced computer user and I've done things like add RAM etc before. I'm comfortable opening a PC up and I know what goes where. I've just been out of the game for a VERY long time and the technical specs of processors and the like are a bit of a minefield to me so what's been provided here is very reassuring.</p>

<p>I was also under the impression that a custom built PC for the specific job would be a better way to go than off the shelf as that's generic. I will certainly have another look around for off the shelf and see what I can dig up. Any recommendations would be very much appreciated :)</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<blockquote>

<p>Macs are <em>generally</em> more reliable but is it worth it?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, I think it is true - with a big "but". Apple systems tend to be stable - easier to achieve as their OS needs to support far less hardware options. However, on good, solid, hardware, recent versions Windows are rocksteady too.<br />But, the first and foremost choice between PC and Mac is the operating system, I think. I've had an iBook back in the days, and never warmed up for OS X. I know people who never got the hang of Windows. It's not that it makes things unworkable, but it's more the nuisance of things getting in your way. The best OS is an OS you don't notice.... and that's mostly down to personal preferences.<br /> Choice for a Mac desktop is -for me anyway- made more complicated by the limited choices they offer - Mac Mini is probably what I'd end up with. The iMacs have great screens, but I don't like the limitation a built-in PC (2-in-1) like that poses. The Mac Pro is another level of budget. So, only the Mini remains, with some external casing for the hard disks.</p>

<p>With regards to OEM built machines versus DYI - as said, I'd also consider a off-the-shelve one if your wants/needs are quite normal. The reasons I built my own system is because I wanted a combination of specs that nobody seemed to make (and I build numerous systems over the years, so I'm comfortable with it - building a desktop is not very challenging really), and I already have a lovely casing I wanted to keep. The OEM systems all do look rather drab, or if they're gamer-oriented, ugly. If you hide the system, no issue. If it's in view, you may care. <br />Being able to taylor the specs is really nice, but only if you insist on some combination of specs that it outside of the mainstream. Otherwise, you cannot beat the HPs, Dells, Acers etc. for price.</p>

[mark_thompson9]

<p>Thanks again for that.</p>

<p>You've sort of confirmed what I was thinking for Macs really. I don't like the idea of a 2 in 1 either. And a Mac Pro is just waaaay out of my budget. There's something about a Mac Mini that doesn't sit well and I don't want a laptop so all in all, I've already ruled it out but would've reconsidered if there had been compelling reasons.</p>

<p>So I've taken all of your advice on board and I can't seem to find any OEM systems that do the job that come for the same price that I can custom build one for. As you say what I want can't possibly be out of the mainstream but whenever I look for specs that match what's mentioned above I get quotes of $2,000+ from the likes of Dell. Whether I'd just, as they say, looking for love in all the wrong places I don't know!</p>

<p>I'll keep searching.</p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>The specs you have on your current computer meet or exceed what I have on mine with the exception of the processor -- I have an i7 rather than an i5 -- and I run Lightroom, Photoshop, etc. with no problem at all. And I've run them in the past on far less powerful computers.<br /><br />The one thing I would definitely recommend is the i7 chip. I'm not a computer geek, but the IT people at my day job haven't given us anything with less than an i7 in years and that's just for word processing. They also tell me an SSD works faster than a standard HD, although I'm working just fine both at work and home with a regular HD.<br /><br />No need to build your own computer. But that doesn't mean you can't get the features you want. If you order from a place like Dell, each computer is at least to some extent customizable because once you pick the general model you can pick the processor, hard drive, RAM, etc. that you want. And their prices are very reasonable.</p>

[mark_thompson9]

<p>Hi Craig<br>

<br />Thanks for the response. I'll look into the i7 vs i5 debate but as I understand it - and as someone said above - it's not quite that simple I don't think. I'm aware that my current computer WILL work with LR but I want a dedicated PC for it, especially if becomes a business which I hope it will be.<br /><br /><br />I want it customised for the job and I will certainly have a look at Dell. When I looked at Dell earlier in the day I couldn't find a section where it allowed me to customise. Maybe this feature isn't available in Australia?</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>Dell US has a lot more options for customisation than the local branches, indeed; at least for normal consumers via their website. However, looking on the Dell Australia site, the XPS systems allow customisation (the Inspirons do not). But it might be on the edge of the budget.</p>

[marc_bergman1]

<p>Mark,</p>

<p>Let's look at your system first.</p>

<p>You have an i5 processor. They can be fast enough depending on the model.</p>

<p>What operating system do you have? Is it a 32 bit or a 64 bit operating system? A 32 bit system with only allow you to use a fraction, say 2GB, of your memory.</p>

<p>How full are your hard drives? Do you know which one is your scratch drive for Photoshop?</p>

<p>One of the things you have to look at is how you use your computer for photo editing. How many files to you want to open at a time? What are the sizes of the files? How many layers do you typically use on your files?</p>

<p>All these questions I have asked will help you determine whether you can modify your existing system or what you will need for a new system.</p>

<p>I am currently looking to upgrade one of my systems. The fact that it is an older XP system makes it much easier to design because everything on new systems look to be such an improvement.</p>

<p> </p>

[mark_thompson9]

<p>Hi Marc</p>

<p>Thank you for the reply. My apologies in the lateness in getting back :-) I currently use Windows 8.1 64 bit and my processor is i52000u and runs at 2.2ghz. I have 8GB ram. Quite literally no idea what a 'scratch' drive is. I have two 500gb HDDs. I install everything on the C and use D for storage including all of my photos.</p>

<p>The PC that I have is 'fine' for what I want to do but I want / need a PC that is dedicated to the job and on which I will keep all business / photography type things. I've taken on board what people have said here (Wouter especially) and have thought about my needs. I borrowed a Macbook Pro from someone (screen too small and system too expensive) and I've also done the laptop vs desktop comparison. Ideally a laptop with a good monitor is the way to go I've decided. And so with all that in mind I found <a href="http://www.mytoshiba.com.au/products/computers/satellite/p50/pspt2a-002001/specifications">this PC</a>.</p>

<p>It's on a great special at the moment and I'll go and drop my money on it tomorrow depending on the feedback I get... so, with that in mind, is it good enough for the job? Twice as much RAM as I have, a 256gb SSD and an i7 processor. Am I right in saying that I add a decent external HDD through USB 3.0 and a good monitor and I'll be set?</p>