Nikon best birding combination?

[pontus_wallst_n]

<p>Hello Everyone,<br>

in about 2 weeks I will be going to Tanzania to do some film and photography work for an NGO. I will have 4 days off work, so I will be doing a birding + wildlife trip. In preparing the trip, I had a few questions, :<br>

With bird photography, the dilemma is always getting more reach, especially when photographing birds of prey or slightly shy birds.. but it seems to always be a compromise, between lens affordability, wheight and quality.<br>

I currently havethe following for wildlife photography : Nikon 70-200 mm f 2.8 vr2 + TC 1.7 E2. I use these both with my Nikon D90 and Nikon D810. I have been considering the new Nikkor 300mm f 4 PF ED VR, leightwheight and has had excellent reviews for sharpness, colour, combination with TC's..etc, but sadly at the moment I can not afford a new lens, at least not before this trip.<br>

I also have a 3x Teleplus Kenko extender, which I rarely use as it is not that great<br>

So I was wondering what was the best setup to get sharpest best quality images with what I already have?<br>

I usually enlarge the best images to 30x40 prints, usually not more.<br>

of course, the D810 has a great cropping factor.<br>

sometimes though with the TC you loose some light, sharpness and AF speed..<br>

I have read that using a TC in FX mode almost gives the same result as not using a TC and being in DX crop mode on the D810.....<br>

any advice would be most welcome!</p>

<p>Pontus</p>

[scott_murphy5]

<p>For birding, you really need something longer than 200mm. I would not rely on TC's and cropping factor alone. A lens of at least 500mm focal length is ideal.</p>

[pontus_wallst_n]

Yes i used to have a sigma 50-500 mm f 5.6, and later a 80-400 nikon, but i sold them eventually, as they were not very sharp, especially

at the long end and unfortunately a bit dissapointing... Although i did get a few good shots.

 

Unfortunately right now i cannot afford any of the very expensive fixed 500, 400 or 600 mm lenses... They are also generally very heavy,

so not the best if you are climbing up and down mountains and wading through muddy swamps.... But they are ideal for hide work of

course...

 

Pontus

[howard_m]

<p>you should read bythom.com for his 'review' of the Nikkor 300/4 and 'birding'</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>If at the moment you cannot afford any lens at all, then the choice is fairly limited? 70-200 with TC17 is quite short, and probably you need to stop down a bit to keep quality up. Using it on the D810 makes the most sense, as its superior AF will come in most handy. Using DX mode - if you don't need to save on card space or continuous shots, I would just shoot the full frame and crop later (which yields the exact same thing as DX mode would).</p>

<p>If you can find a gap in a budget somewhere, the new Nikon 200-500 f/5.6E looks most promising, and at this point it would be my choice. But there is a service recall on it, no idea how severe the issue would impact you in real-world use, and with just 2 weeks before you leave, it is too short notice (for any new lens, really).</p>

[howard_m]

<p>consider renting something.</p>

[pontus_wallst_n]

Yes i have considered renting, and being in Switzerland where everything is expensive, renting a lens for 2 weeks would

almost come to the same price as buying a new one!

 

I enquired about renting a canon c 100 for about 10 days for another shoot in january, the price was the same as buying a

brand new c 100 body....

 

I will check out the link thanks

 

Pontus

[ShunCheung]

<p>In the US, renting a DSLR can sometimes be very expensive, but renting lenses is not. Another way to "rent" a lens is to buy it used and then sell it after the trip. If you are careful with your lens, it could potentially be free rental that way. The new version of the 80-400mm that is AF-S is very good, far superior to the old AF-D version. However, that lens is more expensive than the new 200-500mm/f5.6, which is so new that I don't think you can find it used. It is a little hard to find it new.</p>

<p>Without getting a much longer lens, I am afraid that your current lenses and teleconverter are not going to give you bird images that can justify 30x40 prints unless the unit is mm.</p>

[pontus_wallst_n]

Yes i did look into renting prices, i dont know how they compare to usa prices, but just to give you an idea of swiss

averege rental prices, itvseems renting lenses is more expensive than renting dslr bodies. A D810 here costs around 110

$ a day to rent, while a nikon 500 or 400 mm fixed focal length costs around $ 200 a day. A 200-400 mm will cost you $

160 a day.

 

I looked into the 200-500 mm nikon lens, cheaper than i thought, as here a new one costs around $ 1300 or 1350, but

currently they are not available to rent and if you order one, you have to whait at least 6 weeks if not more to get it.

 

There is also the af issue with tc s that has been raised hete and there on the internet. Of course heavier than the recent

nikon 300 mm f4, and only a 5.6... It does however seem to have good reviews and has a longer reach than the 300 mm

fixed lens of course. With the 200-500, i would probably not need to carry in adittion the heavy 70-200 as well.,,

 

Pontus

[pontus_wallst_n]

Yes i did look into renting prices, i dont know how they compare to usa prices, but just to give you an idea of swiss

averege rental prices, itvseems renting lenses is more expensive than renting dslr bodies. A D810 here costs around 110

$ a day to rent, while a nikon 500 or 400 mm fixed focal length costs around $ 200 a day. A 200-400 mm will cost you $

160 a day.

 

 

I looked into the 200-500 mm nikon lens, cheaper than i thought, as here a new one costs around $ 1300 or 1350, but

currently they are not available to rent and if you order one, you have to whait at least 6 weeks if not more to get it.

 

 

There is also the af issue with tc s that has been raised hete and there on the internet. Of course heavier than the recent

nikon 300 mm f4, and only a 5.6...

 

It does however seem to have good reviews and has a longer reach than the 300 mm

fixed lens of course. With the 200-500, i would probably not need to carry in adittion the heavy 70-200 as well.,,

 

Pontus

[Andrew Garrard]

I'd be finding a way to hire something too, I think - on a

budget, either the older 300mm, the 200-500, or the 150-

600 Sigma sport. (Shun - I assume you meant 80-400,

not -800.) If not a lens, how about a V3 and an FT1? Lots

of very good bird shots are taken with wider lenses - but

that's assuming a lot more skill and time than I'm really

prepared to spend getting the birds used to a nearby

camera. It sounds as though time won't be your friend

for that. Sorry.

 

I don't suppose anyone's going with you from whom you

could borrow a longer lens? Is digiscoping an option?

(Not much, I guess, for a big print, but just a thought.)

 

Using the dx crop of an fx camera (or, indeed, just using

a dx camera) is indeed like using a 1.5x teleconverter -

you get a narrower field of view and less light is hitting

the useful area of the sensor. You'll have more pixels on

the sensor if you're using a teleconverter, of course - but

you'll also have any reduction in quality that came from

using the teleconverter in the first place. Which is best

depends how well the teleconverter optics work with

your lens. Generally, since you can fix a lot of aberrations

digitally, I'd go with the extra pixels and the optical

teleconverter - but bear in mind the higher frame rate

and reduced storage requirements of shooting in dx.

Ymmv. Hope that helps.

[Andrew Garrard]

Sorry, cross-over. Renting a big supertelephoto will

certainly cost money. The 200-500 is new, so I could

believe it's unavailable. I'd see if you can find a rental

house with the 150-600 Sigma sport - it's been out

longer. To go bigger, you might strike lucky with renting

a 500mm f/4.5 Sigma or the 300-800mm, if you can live

without stabilisation - I believe they go for less than the

latest Nikon big primes, and some rental shops might

have them for variety. Good luck.

[ShunCheung]

<p>Sorry, I meant 80-400mm, corrected.</p>

<p>If I go all the way to Tanzania to photograph (which I have done), even though the company is paying for the trip, I would be extremely frustrated without proper equipment. I had the 500mm/f4 AF-S with me plus TC-14E when I went there back in 2000.</p>

[evilsivan]

I just rented the 200-500 for five weeks from now, it seemed like a few places had them available, or said they would by the end of October. That will be a good way to see if it's something I'd like to have. I hardly ever do birds or wildlife, so even if I don't ever buy one, I know I will have fun using it in a few weeks. I wouldn't be surprised its harder to rent in Switzerland.

[Two23]

<p>Buy a used D7200 and a new 200-500mm VR. Sell both when you get back. You are dreaming if you think you'll be able to make a nice 30x40cm print using a 70-200mm f2.8 plus TC. Not going to happen. The Nikons D7100 and D7200 have the highest pixel density of any Nikon camera--that's what you want here.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[pontus_wallst_n]

Yes it definitely seems that one of the best affordable wildlife lenses currently available is the nikon 200-500 mm.

 

I had planned to sell my canon 5d mk3 at some point soon anyway, so i am almost tempted if available here to buy a

nikon 200-500 and then try and sell my 5d a bit earlier than planned to cover the cost.

 

As Cheung said, i also agree that it would be frustrating to spend alot of money and time on a wildlife trip aimed mainly at

seeing specific birds without being able to properly immortalise them, even though seeing them is a hige excitement in

itself of course.....

 

I have been able to get good pictures in the past in africa though with my current setup when i did not yet have the d810,

with patience and as always some luck and whaiting..... But i did feel many times the short reach of the 200 mm even with

a tc....

 

I just read a swedish review of the 200-500 as well which was a great insight!

 

Pontus

[john_narsuitus]

<blockquote>

<p>"With bird photography, the dilemma is always getting more reach, especially when photographing birds of prey or slightly shy birds..."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I would love to have some of the lenses mentioned in this thread. However, I do not shoot birds that often and I too must use what I have. I have and use the following manual focus lenses on a sturdy tripod with a gimbal head:</p>

<p>Nikon 1000mm f/11 mirror -- this lens has only one slow f/stop and displays donut holes in the out-of-focus areas. However, the 1000mm reach and relatively small size sometimes offsets its deficiencies.</p>

<p>Nikon 500mm f/4 IF-ED P -- the fast f/stop and 500mm reach make this my lens-of-choice for bird shooting.</p>

<p>Nikon 400mm f/5.6 IF-ED -- its smaller size and lighter weight occasionally makes this lens a decent substitute for the 500mm.</p>

<p> </div>

[johnny_kleso]

<p>I have a 400mm 2.8 VR, too big and needs a tripod and possibly a blind and a beast to travel with..<br /> I also have a 300mm 2.8 VRII and use both with a TC 1.7x and would be my first choice for a big lens while traveling..<br /> Next would the new 300mm 4.0 for a more compact lens but I have no first hand experience with it..<br /> Next is shoot what you got :)<br />Buy a bag of birdseed and feed then everyday in advance of your shoot in good location close to where you are staying.. <br>

Some times you get lucky and the perfect spot finds you..</p>

<p> </p>

[eric_arnold]

<p>a weak link in your gear setup is the d90, mainly due to its mediocre AF module. a d7100 or d7200 would be a much better choice for fast action. as kent says, DX can be preferable to FX in some situations. this is one of them. </p>

[david_simon]

<p>I was in Tanzania a year ago January with a Nikon 200-400mm and a D300. You can see my bird photos at <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/121910895@N06/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/121910895@N06/</a> in the Tanzania birds album. Most of those have been cropped considerably. I wished I had something longer most of the time even when I used my 1.4x on it.</p>

[Mike D]

<p>I know you want a Nikon combination but for about $1,000 you can get a Tamron or Sigma 150-600 which are both proven birding lenses and will be sharper than almost any lens with a TC. The zoom range is also 4X.</p>

[pontus_wallst_n]

<p>thanks for all your imput and ideas so far,</p>

<p>I called a photography shop (one of the only shops in the french speaking part of Switzerland) - yes Switzerland is a small country...! and had a long chat with the owner of the store about the Nikon 200-500 mm 5.6 vr.<br>

Here is the latest news : yes, they have it in stock for immediate purchase, for a bit over 1450 CHF (a bit more expensive than some shops I have seen it available as "order upon reservation with whaiting list). Considering the focusing problems I had read about on the internet, he told me that in Switzerland, they usually recieve the much later serial numbers anyway, which did not have the focusing issue.<br>

We are never aparently first in cue to be served anyway, and Nikon Switzerland double checks any gear that goes out to swiss shops.<br>

He said if I did experience problems though of course i could bring it back for a full refund, or if i was unhappy with it in any way.<br>

Hhe confirmed that the TC 17E and 20E will not work in AF, only MF with the lens, while the TC14 might in good light on my D810.<br>

Originally I had in mind the Nikon 300 f 4, but that is more expensive, with less reach but lighter of course.<br>

Finally, they said they could offer a bit over 1300 CHF in return for my Canon 5D Mk3, in which case I could almost do a "swap", sell a camera body that i do not really use anymore for a lens I will definitely need long term, not only for Tanzania, but any birding trip I do.<br>

of course it is still alot of money, but I am tempted to just go for it and get it. Any last thoughts on that idea would be as always very welcome :)</p>

<p>Pontus</p>

[pontus_wallst_n]

<p>David, where in Tanzania did you see the verreaux eagle owl? it is one of the birds I will be trying to see with some people from a Birdclub near moshi who want to show me a few great birding locations over a 1 day trip...<br>

Below are a few shots I got last time with in most cases the D90 and the 70-200 2.8 VR2, sometimes used with a TC 17E. :<br>

<a href="https://pontus.smugmug.com/Other/Wildlife-portfolio-2-2007/27097667_CXbT9G#!i=2388935085&k=68b2gh4&lb=1&s=A">https://pontus.smugmug.com/Other/Wildlife-portfolio-2-2007/27097667_CXbT9G#!i=2388935085&k=68b2gh4&lb=1&s=A</a><br>

<a href="https://pontus.smugmug.com/Other/Wildlife-portfolio-2-2007/27097667_CXbT9G#!i=2388938626&k=RSFTgfm&lb=1&s=A">https://pontus.smugmug.com/Other/Wildlife-portfolio-2-2007/27097667_CXbT9G#!i=2388938626&k=RSFTgfm&lb=1&s=A</a><br>

<a href="https://pontus.smugmug.com/Other/Wildlife-portfolio-2-2007/27097667_CXbT9G#!i=2388940952&k=jWB9smX&lb=1&s=A">https://pontus.smugmug.com/Other/Wildlife-portfolio-2-2007/27097667_CXbT9G#!i=2388940952&k=jWB9smX&lb=1&s=A</a><br>

<a href="https://pontus.smugmug.com/Other/Wildlife-portfolio-2-2007/27097667_CXbT9G#!i=2388944623&k=6CfLsWN&lb=1&s=A">https://pontus.smugmug.com/Other/Wildlife-portfolio-2-2007/27097667_CXbT9G#!i=2388944623&k=6CfLsWN&lb=1&s=A</a><br>

<a href="https://pontus.smugmug.com/Other/Wildlife-portfolio-2-2007/27097667_CXbT9G#!i=2388947503&k=FSbGzws&lb=1&s=A">https://pontus.smugmug.com/Other/Wildlife-portfolio-2-2007/27097667_CXbT9G#!i=2388947503&k=FSbGzws&lb=1&s=A</a><br>

Hopefully these links will display the individual pictures, Baboons, Ring Necked barbets, elephants, young elephant and white stork, and black rhino male with zebras...</p>

<p>Pontus</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Pontus, I assume you have read the 200-500 service advisory thread: <a href="/nikon-camera-forum/00dWa7">Nikon Service Advisory for the 200-500mm/f5.6 </a><br /> In Europe, lenses with serial number 2008365 or higher already have the newer firmware.</p>

<p>In any case, IMO the bug is really minor. When I shoot birds in flight, if I zoom, I tend to re-point the center AF points on the subject and re-acquire focus by tapping the shutter release. You have to zoom while holding down shutter release half way or the AF-ON button to trigger the bug in some occasions.</p>

<p>However, I would recommend against using TCs on that lens. I have only tried to use the TC-14E, and even that I need to stop down to get good results.</p>

[greg s]

<p>Pontus, If you can pick up the 200-500 across the counter for what looks to be a pretty good price, I'd be going for it. I have not had one in my hands yet (still on back order), but the reviews have been quite positive and it looks to be close to a dream lens for bird/wildlife photography while travelling abroad. No matter what you bring, post some photos! Cheers, -Greg-</p>