A business want to display my photos. Seeking advices.

[mathieu_martineau]

<p>So, a really nice coffee/bistro is asking me for photos to display. I'm not a pro photographer, mostly just a guy who enjoy the outdoors a lot and can handle a camera.The business seem pretty open about how to make it happen. <br>

I'm just not sure what I should consider. They would like to have some high quality products. It would also be up for sale. Just wondering how much money is worth spending on a opportunity like this. They would also consider paying for the printing / framing and take a part of the sale if it happen. <br>

Should I spend money to decorate a business ? Especially if I fit their need in style and size. <br>

If I let it to them to pay for the printing. How much should I let them have when it sell ?<br>

I'm also a bit worried about who's property it become...<br>

I know they are really nice people and mostly looking to help me out but just not sure how to deal with this.<br>

Thanks </p>

<p> </p>

[allenahale]

<p>If they are willing to pay for the printing and framing, they should be willing to purchase a framed print from you. That would ensure that you are compensated for your talent and you are not waiting for a customer of theirs to buy a framed print and you end up compensating the bistro for decorating their business with your work. You should also do some research, especially for your area, as to how many photographs are sold off the walls of restaurants and bistros, and how many off of gallery walls.</p>

 

[david_henderson]

<p>A couple of points.</p>

<p>First, you will do well to sell very much at all, especially if you're pricing to reflect the need to make a worthwhile profit for yourself and any commission the Café wants. So for me at least I'd be firmly looking to cover at least the majority of my outgoings from the Café , because I wouldn't be happy to rely entirely on end user sales. <br>

Second, from the Cafe's perspective they want quality décor, at below a full market price. That's why they will be pleased to deal with a quality photographer that isn't fully dependent on a photographic income. They may or may not believe that their premises represent a real sales opportunity, but will be happy to give the impression it might be , because that will persuade some photographers that this in fact is an income -in-waiting, and not just a photographer effectively paying to have his work on display.</p>

<p>For me I'd want the Café to pay the printing/mounting/framing costs. I'd want to agree an end pricing structure that would at least double those costs, plus any sales tax the Café (or you) would be liable to charge. I'd ideally want to agree that the photo's should be sold by whichever body can sell without charging tax to the end customer, with that body (you or the Café) making a commission payment to the other. I'd want to split the gross profit evenly between the Cafe and the photographer. With regard to ownership I think it would be cleaner to set this out on a contract , but that the body responsible for selling to the end customer should own the framed pictures. However it should IMO stipulate that when the arrangement ceases or pictures withdrawn, the ownership of the mounted print should lie with the photographer, whereas the frames should stay with the café since they have paid for them.</p>

<p>Note please that what you're getting here is commercial advice, not legal advice, and I'm attempting to be fair to both parties- giving the café cheap ( but not free) décor, and the photographer protection from <strong>external </strong>costs incurred in delivering framed prints. </p>

<p> </p>

[2d]

<p>"Should I spend money to decorate a business ?"<br>

Simple answer = No<br>

<br />"If I let it to them to pay for the printing. How much should I let them have when it sell ?"<br>

I apologize if I sound rude, but I think YOU not an internet forum needs to do your math to figure out your costs. So let's look at some of your costs:<br /></p>

<ol>

<li>Post production time/costs getting the files ready to print</li>

<li>Transporting the files to the printer and discussing what you want/need (time+gas)</li>

<li>Picking up the prints and taking them to a framer (time+gas)</li>

<li>Arranging them(coffee shop) to approve style of frame (time+gas)</li>

<li>Fronting all the costs on your credit card (Interest - what if they don't pay)<br /></li>

<li>Picking up the frames, transporting, and hanging them in the business (wonder what an Interior designer would charge for this alone) (time+gas)</li>

<li>Why should the art be less than the cost of the presentation? </li>

<li>what happens when they call because they are helping out a friend and want a reduction in price. never made a print sale to date without haggling </li>

</ol>

<p>"I'm also a bit worried about who's property it become..."</p>

<ul>

<li>If it's awesome work then it will become the property of whomever steals it - not me but I know from interior designers that this is extremely likely</li>

<li>how long will the work be up for?</li>

<li>what if you make a sale outside of the coffee house will you be able to go grab it off the wall and deliver it?</li>

</ul>

<p> </p>

<p>"... really nice people and mostly looking to help me out..."<br /><br>

Has anyone <strong >ever</strong> truly sold photography at a reasonable rate from a coffee shop? You think the employee that will work in the shop most of the hours after the owners have the business up and running are going to persuade people to buy art work off the wall of a coffee shop? I'm sure there is a New Yorker cartoon in that sentiment <br>

<br>

Seriously I would figure out all your costs including what frames they want and offer to sell them the framed prints. If you feel obligated you can offer to help in the transportation and hanging of artwork and if they are truly nice people maybe they will let you place a card pointing customers to your website for additional prints. <br>

<br>

if however after reading all the internet advice you truly feel like donating your time and effort into their business decorations I would at least go into photoshop and create prints that look like ad posters with your name and website promoted on the bottom of the print but very dominate so someone two tables away can read your name.</p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>Has anyone <strong>ever</strong> truly sold photography at a reasonable rate from a coffee shop?</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

I have. I know plenty of others who have.</p>

[david_henderson]

<p>2D. I think there's something you're missing, in fact three things</p>

 

<ul>

<li>First is the likelihood that if Mathieu makes a proposal that costs the café a lot of money, they will simply reject it and move on. In fact some places would do that if the photographer wanted to make <strong>any </strong>up-front charge. They will find someone, somewhere who is sufficiently flattered by the opportunity and will believe that they'll sell enough to cover their costs or more. If he gets too aggressive now, this opportunity will simply move to the next guy. </li>

<li>Second is the possibility that Mathieu actually would quite like to do it. Maybe if he can do it without losing his shirt, he'd be quite prepared to spend a bit of time on it that he may or may not ever get paid for in the final analysis. Maybe he doesn't have the urge that you have (he's not a pro) to be sure that every minute of time or drop of gas needs to be covered before he agrees to do something. Maybe he can take a bit of a risk if the Café shows sufficient faith in him to remove the cost of frames and printing from him.</li>

<li>Third, the way you look at costs isn't the most efficient way of getting this sort of job done. I upload my prints to my printer and they mail the prints back to me in 24/48 hours for peanuts. I buy mounts cut to my preferred sizes and apertures online. I don't let framers anywhere near my work if there's volume involved because they'll simply increase my risk to make their profit. So I order standardised frames such as Nielsen Classic, that I don't need to see , and again have these delivered to my home. I guess all up I can choose, buy and assemble into framed prints about 20 prints in a days work, without leaving my office and I expect that's the way it tends to be done nowadays. Frankly if the Café pay for the frames , mounts, printing then in the course of a couple of days Max, he can be done. </li>

</ul>

[2d]

<p>Maybe my post came across a little too blunt and I apologize. The point I was trying to make is that there is a lot of work involved in hanging a show. If you are doing it for yourself, your art, that's great I've gone through all the hassle to place work in shows before. One time I didn't make a single sale, but got a very favorable published review by an art critic that meant more than any single sale could of so I also understand that there can be unexpected benefits as well. But the OP's question seems to be of the norm today that artists wether photographer, painter, illustrator etc. should be honored to give their work away to a business. I've never heard of a restaurant asking a florist to donate flowers to each table in their establishment, for the laundry not to charge to clean the table cloths, or for a chef to call up and ask to only pay for the vegetables the restaurant serves - I've worked in a kitchen and know how much food we would have to throw away.</p>

<p>Yes I agree there are much more efficient ways to hang a show today but the premise is the same if someone is requesting you to decorate their space the production costs money and it's ok for us artist to ask for a fair price including our time to pull everything together. What I don't find welcoming is that here on the internet we seem to try and talk our fellow photographers down from asking a fair price giving those mental excuses that hurt us all in any negotiation. Who's to truly say the business moves on to the next photographer but you've planted that fear in the head of anyone who reads this thread thinking any conversation about selling one's art has no negotiating value.</p>

<p>Of course if an artist wants to have a show at a shop there can be other ways to compensate the artist so both parties get equal benefit such as the coffee shop allowing and even promoting the artist to hold a private reception party, where the artist can invite friends and people who are more likely to purchase the work.</p>

<p>Again I don't want to come off rude but I do feel artists, photographers in particular, seem to be seen by the general public and especially business as having no value and are easy push overs with no business skills. There are hundreds of reasons not to charge a fair rate no one needs to come to the internet to find those excuses. I think it's great Jeff is making sales from coffee shops and that should indicate that artwork has true value for any business, no reason not to ask for the same respect that the florist or carpenter receives from the requesting business.</p>