ray . Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Just purchased a Leica M240 from a camera store via ebay. The seller, located in the US, has 100% positive feedback.The sale came with a 14 day return policy offered by the seller. The camera was advertised as 'pre-owned', meaning it has a 1 year warranty. However,over the phone the dealer tells me that the warranty is actually 2 years, because it's essentiallya new camera, never touched by anyone other than Leica personnel. The dealer only handled itin order to take it out of the box and photograph it. He is telling me that it apparently had a cosmetic blemishupon manufacture that Leica fixed themselves, but are so fussy that they won't sell it as absolutely new. So apparently it goes to the 'pre-owned' status. I'm pretty confident it's not a refurbished camera, seller sounds honest, and the photos show what lookslike an absolutely pristine camera. I'm just curious if anyone has experience with this and can confirm or add to the story of how Leica's policy works with this. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryp Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 <p>I have to wonder if the seller is an authorized Leica USA reseller.</p> <p>Henry Posner<br /><strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p> Henry Posner B&H Photo-Video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 The auction states that he is an authorized Leica dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryp Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 <p>Then either it's a new camera and you have a Leica warranty or it's not new and you don't. The seller cannot have it both ways. There's no such thing as "essentially a new camera." It's new or it's not.</p> <p>You wrote, "(Leica) are so fussy that they won't sell it as absolutely new. So apparently it goes to the 'pre-owned' status." In 20+ years I've never heard of this. Leica doesn't sell factory seconds and I don't recall them selling factory refurbs either (although I may be wrong on this one). Did the camera come to you with Leica warranty documentation? </p> <p>Henry Posner<br /><strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p> Henry Posner B&H Photo-Video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 I haven't received the camera yet, but pictures in the auction show a Leica Limited Pre-Owned warranty. Box on the warranty card where catalogue number, serial number, and 'date of service' I assume should be listed are blank. I'm guessing though that this is so he doesn't have to re-photograph each warranty card and owner's manual etc, since it appears he sells other pre-owned Leicas. A number of such sales are in his feedback, and the customers indicate that they are totally satisfied with the sale, and leave positive feedback. Total seller feedback is well over a thousand (multi thousand if I recall correctly without checking), with all positives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryp Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 <blockquote> <p>a Leica Limited Pre-Owned warranty.</p> </blockquote> <p>Why don't you copy that image location and post it here.</p> <p>Henry Posner<br /><strong>B&H PHoto-Video</strong></p> Henry Posner B&H Photo-Video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Since the seller may well be completely legitimate, I don't want to expose him to what could be unfair criticism on this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ray, enjoy it. I understand with the financial outlay why you have concerns.... Use it that is the only real way you will find out about it. Post some photos from it and I will post some photos from my M8 ... then you understand why the M8 is still the ultimate camera for BW....okay, that new mono might prove me wrong;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 <p>My old Gran working her butt off to buy me a M240....just have to love her.</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Hilarious Allen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 <p>Thought I would put smile on your boat race (face).</p> <p>Sort of a welcome back.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_Es Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ray, I hope this is on the level. Keep us informed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 <p>Good times, bad times....give me some of that.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 <p>"Ray, I hope this is on the level. Keep us informed"</p> <p>Ray is into his photography and the camera that works for him is a Leica.</p> <p>I just added some humor.....hello, we are photographers.... some creativity in words and deeds.</p> <p>We are not train spotters. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Doing a little research with google, seems it must be legit. Seller is an accomplished photographer, holds workshops, and the store is brick and mortar. Appears to be a big Leica dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 <p>Cool.<br> Happy days.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhooru Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 <p>Let us know how you like it Ray.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 This was part of seller's response to my question this morning for clarification: <p> <i>"...this camera is what Leica calls a QM2 - factory used. In the final cosmetic inspection they find a slight cosmetic defect that they fix & you will never see it but Leica will not sell this camera as new - it is called factory used - it comes with a Leica 2 year full warranty but I'm not allowed to state this in my listing. So essentially it is a new camera that Leica calls factory used. When I opened the box to photograph the camera it was like opening a new camera box. That is why I don't know the number of actuations & I would prefer the purchaser to be the first one to use the camera. I only took it out of the box to photograph it. " </i><p> Here is a quote I found from Andy Piper via google:<p> <i>"And they are - essentially - "factory seconds". Items never used, but with some minor cosmetic flaw. Come with full new Leica warranty (unlike Code U demo or refurbished equipment) - and a 10% price discount.<p> I inspected the two lenses we got, and can't actually see a flaw, myself."</i><p> Another comment:<i> "QM2,3,4 are Leica designations for the quality of ex-demo items released to dealers for sale. QM2 is the best and numbered upwards by decreasing quality."</i> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_r._fulton_jr. Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 <p>I am perplexed by this thread. A USA dealer is auctioning off Leica QM2 cameras that are basically seconds. This is common practice? And if it is why doesn't Henry P. know about it? And if it's common practice why can't the name of the dealer be posted? A lot of questions but few answers? </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 I'll post the name of the dealer after I receive the camera and can give an assessment of the item. I've told Henry via email who it is after he asked it be posted here, but haven't had a response back. You could google 'Leica QM2' if you're inclined to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Received the camera and because of some confusion over the warranty, made a call to Leica. Verified with the serial number that it is a new camera with a 2 year warranty. Classified QM2 with an unknown blemish or damage to the box. The only thing I can possibly guess at is that the bottom of the boxes the accessories come in are slightly discolored, but that seems pretty picky. Also marks on the surface of the bottom base plate protective plastic where it looks as if the camera might have been attached to a tripod that made a slight imprint. That too seems something you'd never notice, especially since it's just the plastic and those are never perfect. Or it could be something else cosmetic. One thing though, is that there was a temporary non-response from the camera when I tried to wake it up after a 10 minute break after shooting for a few hours for the first time yesterday. Had to remove the battery and put it back in to reboot it. Leica told me this shouldn't happen; could be because the camera sat for awhile before sale or who-knows-what, and that I should send it in if it happens again. I haven't downloaded the latest firmware, so I don't know if that could have something to do with it. Seller is The View Camera Store in Arizona, and he sells a lot of these along with new Leicas at regular price through his store. Appears to be a straight up guy, and the price I got the camera for was pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhooru Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 <p>What??!! The plastic is flawed? Mon Deux! You've been hoodwinked for sure! Wow, paying for hundreds of dollars less for a camera with plastic wrap bottom cover..they sure you coming. Hope the other problem isn't one. Then we need to see photos posted yes?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_r._fulton_jr. Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 <p>All sounds good, Ray. Good luck with your camera and with your photography.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Ask and ye shall receive<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Thanks John, and all..... It's quite a camera and I found myself using live view more than I expected to. In the end I can't say the hit rate will be better than with the M9 or any other, but it's fun to shoot with. Color seems as good as ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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