EF 500mm f/4L IS II Purchase

[gduffy]

<p>I am in the midst of a major equipment upgrade and will be purchasing this lens shortly. Along with the lens I plan to purchase a Gitzo GT3542L Mountaineer Tripod, a Wimberley WH200 gimbal head and P40 plate. I am also looking at LC500M4 lens coat as well. The camera bodies I will be using are my 5D3 and soon to be purchased 7D2. I use Canon battery grips on all my camera bodies. I have done considerable research and have a few questions for users of this lens.<br>

1. Any comments on my choice of Tripod/Gimbal head?<br>

2. I have a first generation 1.4X Canon tele-converter and am not sure if I there is any advantage to upgrading to the 1.4X III. I suspect that I will be using a converter in a lot of situations. I do use it some on my 100-400 II, but not with my existing 7D as I lose autofocus. There are lots written about the 1.4XII vs. the 1.4X III, but not much about the original version. My take from what I have read is that there is not a huge advantage between the II and the III. AF seems quick enough on the original version with my 5D3 or the 7D for that matter on my 70-200 f2.8. Don’t want to spend the $450 if there is no big gain. Thoughts?<br>

3. Lastly as I shoot a lot of birds/wildlife I am looking to get the lens coat mentioned earlier. I have read some negative comments including accessibility to lens controls, lens hood not fitting well, lens cap not fitting well and difficulty getting lens back into the case with this installed. As this only cost $ 99 I do not mind doing a little surgery with an exacto knife to gain access to controls as camouflage of the big white lens in my main goal with it. Comments?</p>

<p>Your thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>Gary</p>

[mark_pierlot]

<p>While I have no experience with the lens in question (although I did recently acquire the new 100-400, which I'm enjoying), I do have a comment. If you use the 1.4x teleconverter a lot, and if there is a demonstrable difference in IQ between versions I and III, it would make sense to upgrade. After all, you're spending $9000 on the lens, so an additional $450 hardly seems worth worrying about.</p>

<p>And won't the 7D2 give you the greater effective reach that you're needing, anyway, or do you require even more reach?</p>

[alan_bryant1]

<p>I believe the differences between the Mk I and Mk II teleconvertors are fairly minimal. The Mk II has some weather sealing added. Optically I think they're identical.</p>

<p>Most people find Canon's "lens cap" to be suitable for storage but just too big and clumsy to be much use in the field, so you might want to budget for replacing that as well.</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>I believe 3-series Gitzos are meant for lenses up to and including 300mm, (400mm in a pinch) but 500mm would seem to be beyond the designed stability of the tripod you're suggesting.</p>

[gduffy]

<p>Mark,<br>

That's the magic question "if there is a demonstrable difference in IQ between versions I and III" isn't it? I am willing to spend the money if there is a compelling reason. Yes, the 7DII will give more reach, but there are times where the 1.4X would be in order I think.<br>

Alan<br>

It isn't that so much as I am wondering if the Canon lens cap will fill well over the lens coat.<br>

Ilkka<br>

I will revisit this, but note that the GT3542L is rated at 46.3 pounds. My heaviest combination would be the 5D3 with battery grip, (2.57 lbs) TC1.4, (.5 lbs) lens, (7.03lbs) gimbal head (3.15) for a total of 13.25 lbs which is only 28% of the rated weight of this tripod. Also I noticed B&H recommended it to a Nikon user with a 600mm F4. It's not that I wouldn't purchase a series 4 or 5 but I would like to keep the weight down a little bit!<br>

Thanks all for you input so far.<br>

Gary</p>

<p> <br>

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</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Congrats on the planned 500/f4 II purchase, you'll not regret it. Its image quality is in a class of its own. I was surprised to find that it bested my Series I considerably.</p>

<p>You tripod choice is okay, but you should develop your hand holding skills and your BIF keeper rate will go through the roof. The IS is tremendous on this lens, allowing me to hand hold at 1,000mm and 1/40-sec. Really, it's that good. Ditch the tripod except when camped under a nest where you're in the ready position for hours at a time.</p>

<p>Get the 7D2 as soon as you can. You'll retire the 5D3 for everything but landscapes and low light shooting.</p>

<p>Invest in both the 1.4x and 2.0x TC-IIIs. They both have electronics improvements that'll speed AF on the Series II lenses. The 2.0x is considerably sharper than the TC-II. You can use both on your 5D3 and 7D2.</p>

<p>I don't install the elements of my lenscoats that obscure controls. You still get plenty of protection from scratches while traipsing through the woods. Several years from now, when its time to upgrade to Series III, you'll be glad that you protected the lens and the lenshood. (I just sold my Series I 500mm for close to what I paid for it).</p>

<p>Hand held is the way to go:</p>

<p><a title="Meadowlark Posing by David Stephens, on Flickr" href=" src="https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8778/17661952661_8b3770a957_c.jpg" alt="Meadowlark Posing" width="800" height="800" /></a></p>

[ed_avis2]

<p>AFAIK, The 1.4x Mark I has the same optical formula as the Mark II, but the II has better coatings and weather sealing.</p>

[dcstep]

<p>For BIF shooting, AF performance is as important or more so than IQ. Get the Series III TCs.</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Also, for these sizable purchases, look into Camera Canada if you want a North American warranty and want to saver around 20% vs. USA prices.</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p><em>I will revisit this, but note that the GT3542L is rated at 46.3 pounds.</em></p>

<p>Right, but this just means the tripod won't collapse under the weight of the kit you mount on. It doesn't mean the tripod can hold the lens steady without vibrations. Gitzo's product catalog has the following recommendations: if the longest lens you regularly use is of focal length f, you should pick the series of tripod accordingly. 0 series: f = 75mm (25 degree view angle); 1 series: f = 135mm (18 degrees), 2 series: f = 200mm (12 degrees), 3 series: f = 300mm (8 degrees), 4 series: f = 400mm (6 degrees), and 5 series for up to f = 500mm (5 degrees). In fact they recommend going with a tripod one series higher than the focal length would suggest if you want to have extra leeway to use it in extreme conditions without having to worry about image stabilization, so e.g. 3 series for a 200mm lens.</p>

<p>For a long time I've been using Gitzo's series 3 carbon fibre tripods and I've always felt the results for 400mm have been mediocre. I've blamed the optics for it but recently I've finally accepted that the tripod is significantly undersized (too narrow tubes, insufficient torsional rigidity). Electronic first curtain shutter can be used to reduce vibrations caused by the shutter, but it won't do anything to stability against wind. But I use long lenses for landscape photography quite often, so my expectations are pretty stringent and I often use slow shutter speeds in the Nordic winter. If you always use fast shutter speeds then perhaps the 3-series will work, though personally I think it would result in significant reduction in stability (I'm not saying anything will be damaged, just that a 5-series tripod would give better stability). I understand the need to reduce weight, especially when carrying a heavy long lens as well. I just think it is best to not reduce weight <em>too much</em> so as to compromise results. Reportedly a Sactler or Cartoni tripod with fluid head can provide even better stability than a 5-series Gitzo.</p>

<p>I totally understand that the tripod needs to be light enough so that it is not always left at home, or cause back pain etc. I use a carrying bag nowadays, it helps with the weight when other stuff in my hands.</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Canon's series II lenses will recognize when it's mounted on a tripod and adjust accordingly. Leave IS on if you MUST use a tripod. Learn to hand hold and you'll get superior results, particularly for BIF. We're not shooting film anymore. </p>

[Robert DeCandido PhD]

<p>Why not the 600mm F4 version II rather than the 500mm F4? One can never have enough reach with telephoto lenses.<br>

I am not as impressed with image quality of the new 7D2 compared to version 1. Handling is better on the newer camera body...but my recommendation would be to get the 5D3 for about $1900.<br>

You might look into a heavy duty CF Benro tripod if you want good quality, enough support and a reasonable price.<br>

Price differences between Canada and the USA lenses (Canon) are not as sharp as previously...but definitely worth exploring especially if you are a Canon Platinum level member. (See the Camera Canada web site for details.)</p>

 

[dcstep]

<p>I own both the 7D MkII and the 5D MkIII and much prefer the 7D MkII for bird and wildlife shooting. (I also own the 7D MkI and can assure you that the MkII is much superior in IQ, particularly in the 800 to 1600 ISO range. The AF of the MkII blows the MkI into the weeds, which is incredibly important for BIF work).</p>

<p>The 600mm weighs 1.5-lbs more than the 500mm, which is huge for hand holding. Combined with the high pixel-density 7D MkII, it's close to an ideal setup in this price range. If you want to go with the 1DX, you'll gain a superior AF when TCs are in use, but then you will need the 600mm to get enough pixels on your subject in focal length limited shooting. I prefer using a crop sensor for focal length limited shooting, but a compact rig is very important to me for hand holding.</p>

[gduffy]

<p>Ok, just to be clear I already own the 5D MkIII and 7D Mk1. My 7D MkII will be delivered tomorrow. All three cameras have Canon battery grips, which is my preference. I have decided to purchase the 1.4X III TC based on recommendations here and elsewhere.</p>

<p>Robert, I choose the 500mm over the 600mm because of over 1.5lbs weight difference and $2,500 in price. As mentioned above I already have the 5D3, but did pay more than $ 1,900. That is a good deal!</p>

<p>Ilkka, I am taking your comments into serious consideration. I just have trouble getting past a tripod rated for 46 pounds not being able to handle 13 pounds! The tripod choice is probably the most confusing of all. Many out there swear by the Gitzo 35xx series for 500mm or 600mm set ups and many insist on 4000 or 5000 series tripods. I am aware of the Gitzo rating system as far as that goes, but I don’t really want to lug around a beast of a tripod either. Still mulling this one over and will do more digging. I will likely end up shooting a lot without a tripod so that tips me towards the lighter one as well. My funds arrive to me in less than 2 weeks so I will make a decision soon!</p>

<p>David, I have pretty much the same thought process as you on camera selection, lens selection and shooting style. I am with you on the handholding. I have been hand holding with a 300L non-IS and 70-200 f2.8L for years and more recently with my 100-400L 4.5-5.6 II which is in the 3.5lb range. Now I move up to 7lbs! I try to keep the ISO on the 7D mark I in the 800 iso range as IQ falls off at anything above that. I have shot the 5D3 at iso 3200 with great results. I purchased the 7D mark II for two major reasons, the ability to AF at F8 and for the AF system. The AF on the 5D3 has spoiled me and the 7D2 is reportedly as good if not better. I look at the noise reduction claims as an added bonus. If I can shoot at iso 1600 or more, all the better. Even with the 7D1 I get good results if I “shoot to the right” along with some good post. The added reach is a major deal as well.<br>

I do have birding locations where I am in one spot for hours on end and I also sometimes sit in blinds for hours for other wildlife. In these cases I prefer to use a tripod as I am pretty much focused on one area. For BIF if my shots turn into overheads I can remove camera and lens from the tripod pretty quickly.</p>

<p>Since I posted this I have read that the construction of the 1.4x III tc is stronger as well as the factors you mentioned. I will try the pieces needed of the lens coat as you suggest. I got a chuckle at “we are not shooting film anymore” Great photos btw!</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for the great advice!</p>

<p>Gary</p>

<p> </p>

[dcstep]

<p>Great. ETTR and you won't have any trouble with IQ on the 7D MkII.</p>

[Robert DeCandido PhD]

<p>all the birds in flight images in these two portfolios made from 2012-2014 were taken with the 800mm F5.6 and 5D3 combination...<br>

Nepal: http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1021128<br>

Thailand: http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=714849<br>

I need to shoot often at 1600 asa - either version of the 7D shows too much grain (noise) in the image; my significant other shoots with the 7D2 and I see results all the time. (IMO) That camera can do a well-exposed 800 iso image...but I don't like the 1600 iso images. The 5d3 is better at 1600 iso but Nikon/Sony sensors leave Canon far behind (in terms of noise; detail in shadows...and Canon (5d3) suffers from color shifts at high iso that cannot be corrected in post-processing as can images from Sony sensors (I have the RX-1 and can shoot/accept images to 3200 iso).<br>

No big deal - we can agree to disagree - whatever folks feel comfortable with is fine...I was just offering options - but I would opt for the 600mm F4 version II over the 500 version II...but yes, that is a lot of additional money. The 600mm F4 II weighs less than the 800mm F5.6 that I hand-hold all the time...so it can be done and without much problem.</p>

 

[gduffy]

<p>Robert, great shots! I took my new 7D2 out for some shooting yesterday and was pleasantly surprised at its performance at iso 800. Did not have to do much noise reduction at all in post, quite different from my 7D1 at 800. I will push the iso up to 1600 today and see what I get.<br>

As far as the tripod goes I ran across this review where Art Morris uses a GT3532 on lenses up to 800mm. Check it out:<br>

http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/2012/10/02/gitzo-gt3532-ls-review/<br>

Thanks,<br>

Gary</p>

<p> </p>

[dcstep]

<p>7D2/500mm II, hand held, ISO 1600:</p>

<p><a title="Mother and Baby by David Stephens, on Flickr" href=" src="https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7710/16583965484_8c9ba294d0_c.jpg" alt="Mother and Baby" width="800" height="800" /></a></p>

<p>ETTR. If you click on the image, it'll take you to Flickr, where you can see it larger.</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Gary said:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>David, I have pretty much the same thought process as you on camera selection, lens selection and shooting style. I am with you on the handholding. I have been hand holding with a 300L non-IS and 70-200 f2.8L for years and more recently with my 100-400L 4.5-5.6 II which is in the 3.5lb range. Now I move up to 7lbs! I try to keep the ISO on the 7D mark I in the 800 iso range as IQ falls off at anything above that. I have shot the 5D3 at iso 3200 with great results. I purchased the 7D mark II for two major reasons, the ability to AF at F8 and for the AF system. The AF on the 5D3 has spoiled me and the 7D2 is reportedly as good if not better. I look at the noise reduction claims as an added bonus. If I can shoot at iso 1600 or more, all the better. Even with the 7D1 I get good results if I “shoot to the right” along with some good post. The added reach is a major deal as well.<br />I do have birding locations where I am in one spot for hours on end and I also sometimes sit in blinds for hours for other wildlife. In these cases I prefer to use a tripod as I am pretty much focused on one area. For BIF if my shots turn into overheads I can remove camera and lens from the tripod pretty quickly.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Same page.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>I shoot Nikon and have used Nikon's 500mm/f4 and 600mm/f4 lenses for years. While the brands are different, a lot of the experience is similar. If anything, Canon's latest super teles are a bit lighter than Nikon's counterparts.</p>

<p>Back in 1998, I bought a Nikon 500mm/f4 AF-S lens. Prior to that, I had a 500mm/f4 P manual focus lens since 1992. In 1999 I bought a Gitzo 1325 tripod, than a brand new model. My experience is that it is sufficient to hold a 500mm/f4 lens.</p>

<p>I still own that lens, and a few years ago I added a Gitzo 3541 XLS. The top 3 sections of that newer tripod is essentially the same as the 1325, but the 3541 XLS has an extra bottom section so that it can open taller. If I don't use its bottom section, it is almost identical to my old 1325. The 3542 should be an updated version of that, and it is easier to change the top plate on the new model.</p>

<p>Two years ago I started using a 600mm/f4 AF-S, and I quickly found out that a heavy 600mm lens is not secure on a series 3 tripod, so I bought 5532 LS. I am 6'1" and those tripods work well for my height. I use a Wimberley gimbal head.</p>

<p>If you are buying a 500mm/f4 lens, I think a 5 series or even 4 series would be an overkill, and you'll be carrying extra weight for the larger tripod. I have flown with either series 3 tripod quite a bit, and they fit well in checked luggage. A series 5 tripod would be bulky to travel with. Since you are shooing wildlife and birds in flight, you'll mostly be using high shutter speeds anyway. That should take care of any vibration concerns. The tripod is mainly there to support the weight of the lens + body.</p>

[gduffy]

<p>Just an experiment on a Cow Bird in poor lighting.</p><div></div>

[gduffy]

<p>Later on yesterday Red-Tailed Hawk. Both photos hand held.</p><div></div>

[dcstep]

<p>Gary, on the cowbird there's a bit of luminescence in the bokeh. It doesn't bother me at all, but some object. If it bothers you, it's very easy to remove, but you only want to touch the BG, not the subject. I probably would have tried for a little more ETTR and let the SS go down to 1/1000-sec. and raise shadows a bit more.</p>

[gduffy]

<p>David,<br>

Duly noted. Many thanks for all your advice. I am pleasantly surprised at the higher ISO performance of the 7D2 compared to the 7D. The AF system is all that I had hoped for and more. Need a little more time with the camera to get up to speed, but the first 2 days have been good. You are right, once I get the 500mm I don't think the 5D3 is going to be on the other end all that much!</p>

[gduffy]

<p>Update: I ended up going with the Gitzo GT3542LS Systematic Tripod (no center column rated at 55 lbs) with the Wimberley WH200 Version II Gimbal head along with the 500mm F4L IS II. I also picked up the 1.4X EF Extender III. Everything arrived today so I have been doing a little shooting to get familiar with it all. Haven't put the lens coat on yet. <br /> Thanks to everyone.</p>

<p>Gary</p>