Upgrading from/with 6D

[jaime_duarte]

<p>Hello guys,<br /> First of all sorry for the wall of text.<br /> Enthusiast here. Have been photographing for about 3 years.<br /> I have a full time IT job to pay the bills and have had some paying gigs on the weekend as a photographer.</p>

<p>I began shooting Nikon, first with a d3100 then a d7000 but the lack of affordable f/4 lenses (17-40, 24-105, 70-200) made me switch to canon. In hindsight, that might not have been very smart in the long run since I outgrew the f4 lenses quickly and am now in the f2.8 range)<br>

<br /> I sold all my nikon gear and bought a used 5D (the original) for 350€. The sensor was beautiful but ergonomics, usability, lcd screen were very limited vs my previous D7000.<br>

<br /> So after a short while i sold the 5D I got a used 6D for 1000€ was a big step up, pretty much brand new and still in warranty. (at the time of writting this post it is still under warranty).<br>

<br /> I was shooting mostly portraits by then and I loved the camera, I still do. <br /> I was a competitive swimmer for 15 years and as such I had the oportunity to shoot a swimming event a couple of weeks ago. they liked it and we are making it a regular thing.<br>

<br /> The high ISO performance was phenomenal. I have perfectly usable 12800 shots.<br /> As you may guess swimming pools are dark as caves and you need to freeze the action very crisply because the water blurs everything on swimmers faces. I could never go below 1600 by day (daylight shinning through large windows) and by night I was mostly on 3200/6400 territory.<br /> In this regard the camera is fine. Could not ask for better honestly.<br>

<br /> The bad news is the staple swimming photo is the front photo of a butterfly swimmer. With the swimmer coming towards the camera. He hides his face in the water and emerges quickly to inhale, going back down again.<br /> So you have a split second to focus as soon as he emerges or you can try to predict focusing on the water in front of him, where he is going to emerge. All in all, its very tricky business with the 6D slow FPS and famously bad focusing system.</p>

<p>Since it's got only 1 cross type focus sensor I kept to the middle sensor and just rolled with it.<br /> Now, be aware I got a lot of keepers, but a lot of garbage as well.</p>

<p>Long story short I want a better focusing system and faster burst.</p>

<p>So this is where I need your help. I know the cameras out there: I know the models and it's specs. But I'm not sure what to do. On one hand I really like my 6D and I am not a pro photographer. On the other hand I see 350€ cameras like the 1D mkII that can shoot 8.5fps with, what I think, is a better AF system. But unfortunately the ISO is very limited in comparrison to my ridiculous 6D standards.<br>

<br /> The 1D mark IV is above my price range with used prices around 1400€.<br>

<br /> The 1D mark III is a camera I could switch my 6D with. Still only 6400 max ISO. But I can make that work. Still the 6D 6400 is probably cleaner than the 1DIII 1600. They go for about 800€ used.<br>

<br /> The 7D. The 7D is at a weird place for me right now in terms of price, I can probably get one for 550-600€ but thats kind of steep as a second camera and a considerable donwgrade, In my opinion, if I make the switch and sell the 6D.</p>

<p>And then the 1D mark II. I could get it as a second camera but it won't go over 3200 ISO and I KNOW I sometimes need to go over that. Plus, since i'd be in 1600/3200 all the time, i would get more keepers, granted, but overall much inferior quality shots than with my 6D. </p>

<p>This 1DII option is what i'm most inclined to do but the very low demand for it worries me that I won't be able to sell it back if I'm not happy with it.</p>

<p>The smaller sensor on any of theses cameras is actually a plus since Im shooting a 70-200 2.8 and I find myself on the longer end of the lens more often than not.</p>

<p>What do you guys think? Should I buck up and make my 6D work or get a new toy for this endeavour and others that might come along? What would you do?</p>

<p>Thanks in advance, sorry if my english isn't that great, I tried my best.</p>

[ed_avis2]

<p>You will not get better low-light performance than the 6D. (except perhaps with the top-of-range 1D X, but even then it is probably about even.) A 1D Mark II is a non-starter for the high ISO speeds that you need, although it is in many ways a good camera still for outdoor work.<br>

<br />I think your only option is to manually focus to where you think the swimmer's head is going to appear.</p>

[dcstep]

<p>The 5D MkIII will match the high-ISO performance of your 6D and it has a professional grade AF system that will allow the shots that you seek. Don't get too infatuated with high fps. I think you'll find the 5D3's 6-fps more than adequate.</p>

<p>I routinely shoot my 7D MkII at ISO 3200 with very nice results. The shot below was taken at ISO 3200, after sunset, with my 7D MkII. I go light on Luminescence Noise Reductions in order to preserve details. Click-thru to see larger sizes at Flickr.</p>

<p><a title="Leaping For Prey by David Stephens, on Flickr" href=" src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7512/15942204878_dce681f68e_c.jpg" alt="Leaping For Prey" width="800" height="534" /></a></p>

<p> </p>

[dcstep]

<p>Oh, forget about manually focusing on a moving subject with a telephoto lens with today's cameras. The viewfinders are just not designed for such activity. Believe me, I've tried it and the keeper rate was incredibly low.</p>

[jaime_duarte]

<p>The 5D mkIII is a pretty big investment. I can't make it at this point.</p>

[ed_avis2]

<p>David S, I do not suggest manually focusing on a moving subject but manually focusing on a fixed point and then hoping that the swimmer's head pops up there. You can't focus on the swimmer's head, whether manually or automatically, because it is underwater a lot of the time.</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Ed, the 7D2 or the 5D3 will focus fast enough to lock on a swimmer's head. You need to prefocus near where you think you'll be shooting, then lock on as the head comes up. Have the camera in AI Servo mode so that it'll be in predictive tracking mode. I guarantee that it'll work, assuming that you've chosen the correct AF program and you're using single-point AF placed right on the head.</p>

<p>Trying to manually focus with prefocus only will only allow you one in-focus shot. The shallow DOF of a super-telephoto lens will almost guarantee an OOF shot, unless there's enough light to use f/11, which there seldom is. The 7D2 and 5D3 work well for this shot, but the 1D X really shines because of its unmatched high-ISO performance.</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Jaime said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The 5D mkIII is a pretty big investment. I can't make it at this point.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I'd suggest going with a used body.</p>

[jaime_duarte]

<p>They are going for 1800€ used here.<br>

I have a 1000€ camera so i'd be essentially doubling my camera investment.</p>

<p>A used 7DII, when they start popping up, might actually be my best bet, I lose some ISO performance but gain everywhere else.</p>

[PuppyDigs]

<p>I saw new 7D going for $600 here in North America. A notch below the 7D2 in terms of IQ and AF but is a real gun slinger compared to a 6D and sports all cross-points in the AF array.</p>

[DickArnold]

I routinely shoot swimming meets. I shoot two large meets annually at Harvard and BU. Light is

difficult because at BU as I get changing window light and artiificial light in some of the same

pictures. Four or five years ago I occasionally used a 5D to get higher ISO. Up until this month I

used a 7D and a 70D. The 70D is very good. Occasionally, with official concurrence I use flash

when shooting into back light from the north windows when the swimmers were finishing south. I did

this months BU meet with a 7DII. I got better action because the camera for me is intuitive when

using ITR. The big technical change is the camera uses exposure color discriminating sensing to

follow the subject when once one locks onto the initial subject. I am getting starts at ten frames per

second that are followed into entry with all in focus. If you want to get the best for less than the 7DII

at 1800 dollars, I think used 70Ds are selling at low prices. I have gotten some really good pictures

with it. I have done ISO 3200 successfully with it. I shot the current meet at ISO 6400 with the 7DII.

After LR noise reduction I got some very good prints at 8.5x11 with it.<div></div>

[DickArnold]

I don't think there is much wrong with the 6D for swimming. I am pretty sure I could make it work as I

did when I got desperate for shutter speed with 5D. I think, from my experience, you will lose a lot of

pictures trying to manually focus. I shot with single point focus for years doing sports. IMO it works.

When I shoot fly or breast stroke, being a swimmer myself I just move with the swimmer and I can

get at least a couple of each swimmer by accounting for shutter delay but the 7DII is pretty damn

quick.. I do shoot from the deck. I like shots from an angle like the one I posted. You lose facial

depth sometimes head on although you can then lower your shutter speed a bit. My 7DII still does

not shoot underwater so I shoot a lot for some insurance. I use a 17 year old 70-200 non IS L. It is

unbelievably sharp. The picture above was taken with that lens and has some noise reduction

applied. .With ISO 6400 I can get around a thousandth of a second at BU although that varies.

Shooting below that speed, I think, has a sharpness penalty. You can also get a keeper or two at

five frames a second catching the apex of the stroke.