Question about the NEW F1 Metering system

[tony_webster1]

<p>Had a new F1 that I ended up getting from my dad, Also own a slew of AE1-P, A1, the original AE-1 and a few T90s. This F1 was used maybe 4 times by my dad before he put it away and never used it again. It's absolutely as pristine as if it first came out of the box.</p>

<p>My F1 didn't have a meter that worked properly. When i took it in to get looked at I was told there were some circuits that didnt work which led to the camera not getting any ISO or ASA readings, hence why the meter moved to the top each time I pressed the shutter button. In full manual mode the camera worked perfectly.<br /> Had the camera fixed by using parts from another F1 body, the meter works, is calibrated and everything. Thie same person also did an amazing job with the CLA on my A1. I have the Motordrive FN and the Battery pack and the AE finder.<br>

Do all the cameras I own read light in a different manner?<br>

<br />So my question is this. The meter seems a LOT different than the other cameras I have. When I set an A1 and this New F1 side by side the meter readings seem a LOT different. Almost as if the F1's metering in shutter priority is 3 or 4 stops above the A1 with the exact same settings (ISO, etc). Both exposure comp dials are set at 1 but the A1's meter reads completely different.<br>

<br />Now pointing at the same spot in the same lighting conditions my T90, New F1 and the original AE-1 (not the program) are almost identical to each other. The A1 and AE1P read the same as each other. I havent run any film through the NEW F1 since I got it back the other day because I wanted to make sure I remembered how it functioned. All of the other cameras all take perfect pictures too.<br>

<br />If my meter off? The camera functions perfectly and my T90 and AE1 (Original) seem to read almost the same. Or do all these cameras read light differently based on how they are made and used? I know each camera has it's own way of doing things much like the menus and everything are different when you compare digital cameras. Any insight is appreciated!</p>

<p>-Tony</p><div></div>

[rick_janes]

Which focusing screen type are you using? That determines the all important metering pattern. Screens for the New F-1 are

designated by two letters, the first being the metering pattern provided when it's installed: A (centerweighted full screen),

P (semi-spot, using central rectangle of 12% coverage), and S (central spot, 3%). Canon recommended the A prefix

screens for general use and auto exposure metering; the P series could be used for AE with caution, and S were not

recommended for AE photography. The standard New F-1 screen was type AE: A designates centerweighted metering and E is the focusing aid variety (in this case, center split-image inside a microprism circle)

 

Let us know what's in there...

[tony_webster1]

<p>I have the standard screen AE :)</p>

[jim_bielecki1]

<p>The meter in my F-1N with the AE Finder is off over two stops when compared to my Gossen Luna Pro-F handheld meter (which is 100% accurate). The camera dates to 1982 and I figure old age has set in and it’s in need of a CLA. Until I get it fixed, I just change the ASA dial to compensate. Not the best or most elegant solution, but it works.</p>

 

[rick_janes]

The camera still meters accurately in manual mode, is that right? What about in aperture priority mode?

[tony_webster1]

<p>Well I dont know again, does this camera read light differentally than the others I listed? Its almost spot on with my original ae1. In aperture priority the meter almost seems off but in shutter priority it doesnt. Again im not as familiar with the new F1 as I have barely used mine.</p>

[tony_webster1]

<p>You know all of these bodies have their own quirks and such which is why Iw ant to ask before I throw a roll of film in. It could also mean maybe my meter needle is off?</p>

[tony_webster1]

<p>Yup so my AE-1 and New F1 get the exact same meter readings, for example with an F stop of 5.6 and a shutter speed of 15 seconds they read identical, whereas the other 3 read 15 seconds and 4.0. in manual mode. (AE-1P, T90, and A1) So should I assume its just the way the F1 reads light and thats its different than the others? I supposse running a rikll of film through it to find out can always happen :) <br>

My AE-1 (the original one). takes perfect pictures. Worse comes to worse theres always the exposure comp dial too.<br /> <br>

What do you guys think?</p>

[rick_janes]

What are you using as a metering subject? Is your metering data obtained through a single lens that's being shared

amongst all those bodies? Eliminate as many variables as possible, and ensure the cameras are setup (when possible)

for similar metering patterns i.e. full area center-weighted to match the New F-1.

[JDMvW]

<p>Light meters of any kind, should properly be used only in odd numbers (1,3,5,7,....n).<br /> However, even so, if you have three meters, you will get three <em>different</em> measures; but you will be able to average them, if you wish.</p>

<p>Too many variables are involved in metering for it to be so precise as some would like, with the possible exception of very precisely set up spot metering with all the other variables controlled (lens, angle of view, slight differences in area metered, etc.).</p><div></div>

[tony_webster1]

<p>Rick, I used the same lenses on both cameras. How do you setup an AE-1P, An AE-1 or say an A1 or T90 to meter just like the F1?. Maybe the F1 is spot on and im reading too much into it.</p>

<p>JDM: So are you saying all these cameras meter differentially?</p>

<p>When i had the camera in the sunlight I pointed it in a few random directions and it was right on with the sunny 16 rule at 100 iso (125 f-16). Maybe that's a sign? </p>

[mark_pierlot]

<p>When I last checked the metering of one of my F-1N's (w/ AE screen) with that of one of my EOS digital bodies, the readings were virtually identical. Perhaps the meter of your problematic F-1N needs to be calibrated.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Trust the check against sunny-16 over all others.<br /> I was saying not to worry about differences in metering unless all the variables are IN ACTUAL FACT controlled - same lens, same field, same everything...</p>

<p>Mark's experience with two different meters and cameras agreeing is pure chance. It rarely happens. ;)</p>

[jim_bielecki1]

<blockquote>

<p>So are you saying all these cameras meter differentially?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Meters eventually go out of adjustment. It’s not unusual for several cameras to give totally different meter readings. You can usually get around any errors by adjusting the ASA dial to compensate. <br /><br>

You need a third-party meter that you can check your camera meters against. I use a Gossen Luna Pro-F that has been calibrated. My original F-1 (CLA’d by Ken Oikawa) and my Leica MP match perfectly with my Luna Pro. My old beater Pentax Spotmatic and Olympus OM-1 are both off by about one stop, My F-1N is off by more than two stops. No big deal to me, when you use old cameras, stuff can happen.</p>

<p> </p>

[tony_webster1]

<p>My A1, AE1P, T90 and my Sony Alpha 850 all give the same readings.</p>

<p>So if I have to have the meter calibrated how do they do that?</p>

<p>-Tony</p>

[tony_webster1]

<p>Before I say anymore.......how do you read the meter on this camera properly? This may sound stupid but when I put it into full manual in stop down mode it seems to be spot on with all my cameras and their readings. Maybe I am misreading this thing when in shutter priority?</p>

[rick_janes]

Tony, have you performed the battery test function? I have experienced erratic New F-1 behavior with a newly installed

battery, but one that wasn't fresh enough for its liking.

[tony_webster1]

<p>Battery seems fine. I think I am confused how to read the meter on this thing. In stopped down full manual whereever the aperture needle is.....I need to set the shutter speed so the needle is IN the little circle? How do I read the meter in say shutter priority?</p>

[rick_janes]

You should get ahold of an operating manual...it will clarify this and more!

[tony_webster1]

<p>I have the original manual but its kind of confusing for me.....For example in shutter priority where the lens aperture is set to A. and the stop down button isnt pushed in...... For optimum exposure where should the meter be at? In the middle where the 5.6 is on the right?<br>

<br />For example if I point the camera at my wall right now with a shutter speed of 60 the meter is right in the middle where the 5.6 is at. Does this mean its an optimum exposure?</p>

[gordon_yee]

<p>Per Rick's suggestion:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.cameramanuals.org/canon_pdf/canon_new_f-1.pdf">http://www.cameramanuals.org/canon_pdf/canon_new_f-1.pdf</a></p>

<p>Stopped-down metering on the New F1 is essentially the same as on the A series cameras. Use the <em>stopped-down metering/battery check index</em> at f/5.6 on the aperture scale that appears to the right of the viewfinder (page 39 of the New F1 manual).</p>

<p>With respect to comparing the meters between your various Canon bodies, meter on an evenly lit, monochrome matte surface, such as a light colored wall, a fence or the side of a building. The readings should be essentially identical if the meters are properly adjusted, irrespective of which metering pattern is in play. This includes readings in AE, match needle and stopped-down modes.</p>

<p>[Added after reading Tony's last post:]</p>

<p>In shutter priority AE mode, the aperture selected by the New F1's meter will be the f-stop indicated by the moving meter needle (<strong>not</strong> the fixed index mark at f/5.6, and <strong>not</strong> the round lollipop needle). If you look at the aperture scale to the right of the viewfinder as you change the shutter speed, you should see the meter needle move up or down one stop. If you don't see a moving meter needle, you have a problem.</p>

[tony_webster1]

<p>Ok so.......let this be a lesson to me for not paying attention. I am sort of a new school person who loves old school stuff but this camera totally threw me off. I was used to my T90, AE1s and the A1.</p>

<p>Anyway thanks for all of your help but I figured out the issue. The stop down button wasnt pushed in. So in other words the red line was out and it was throwing me off as to why I wasnt getting the readings I thought I was going to get. Once I realized with the button pushed in it worked properly it was spot on with all of my FD cameras and ironically super close to my Canon 7D.<br>

<br />So when pointing my camera at a gray card I needed an fstop of 2.8 and shutter of 60......ALL my cameras read the same thing. Even my digital. Now I feel dumb :)</p>

[tony_webster1]

<p>Gordon thats exactly what happened and man its spot on accurate now. I forgot I had to push IN the stopdown button for the camera to work normally. I was using it before I had the meter fixed to do a lot of my night photos of buildings......i was using it in manual mode so I never had the meter fixed until 2 weeks ago :)</p>

[User_4136860]

<p>An old Chinese proverb says "a man with one clock always knows what the time is, one with many clocks is never sure"</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>It was Ben's point that I was trying to make through hyperbole.</p>

<p>As I should have just said, don't depend too much on any meter, especially ones on very old cameras. "The old forget" as Henry V said. Use your head, and realize that a stop or two just don't make much difference unless you are shooting something like Kodachrome, and even there it was mostly f/8-11 at 1/125.</p>