Need help pricing some real estate photography and usage fees...

[joseph_kulha]

<p>I was recently offered to apply for a gig where a friend/fan of my work works at. The memo I was forwarded reads:</p>

<p>"< > is searching for a local photographer to use to photograph some of our homes and communities around the Eastern Shore. We are looking to capture both interior and exterior photos showcasing our architecture and extraordinary features found in an < > Home.</p>

<p>We are requesting pricing based on the following criteria: <br>

Half Day Shoot <br>

Full Day Shoot <br>

One Single Family Home Shoot <br>

One Townhome Shoot <br>

Cost per job <br>

Limitations and costs based on rights usage. (All photos will be used locally for a max of 5 years).</p>

<p>I've been doing TONS of research and keep coming up almost completely empty handed. I've gotten some very rough ballpark figures but absolutely nothing on usages fees. About myself, I have a BFA in graphic design, have always loved photography and have been seriously doing it for about 4 years now. While I have a lot of experience going and photographing old and abandoned homes I have not done actual real estate photography yet. I do have a lot of experience with HDR though which seems to be almost standard now (subtle HDR obviously) and bracket shooting in general to keep windows from blowing out, etc.</p>

<p>Where I live I assume will be the low to medium-low range of pricing and when I asked my friend how many properties or their size she said they're not giving out that information because they're not sure yet (but I'm guessing medium to large sized homes). </p>

<p>I was thinking around $150 per single family home and maybe $100-125 for townhomes? Then ala carte something like an extra $25 per extra shots like panos or attic shots? Or should I go even lower, living on Delmarva (the peninsula with bits of Delaware, MD, and VA...for those not savvy to the nickname)...so like $100-125 per house and $75 townhome? I've seen widely varying prices from people ranging from like $30 per house to upwards of $300-500 or even more for mansions. </p>

<p>Then should I give hourly rates for half and full day or I mean, kind of confuses me could be several homes in that amount of time right? Then again "per job"? Are they trying to get better deals out of people by getting them to just be like "well I'll charge you $150 per house but only $300 for half a day?</p>

<p>As for the usage fees I'm 100% lost, when I've done things with usage fees before it's always been worked into the pricing already so I've never had to figure anything out.</p>

<p>I know this is a lot and I'm sorry but I'm really lost and have spent times of time looking it up already and come away with next to nothing.</p>

[richsimmons]

<p>$125 for a full day shoot seems pretty low ball. I think you need to think about how many shots each room needs (4-5+), how many outdoor angles, distance shots, close ups, etc. You might want to use Google Street View to get an idea of what's in the area and see the kinds of houses you'd be dealing with. Zillow could tell you what's in the house as far as how many rooms, bathrooms, garage, etc. Plus, are you doing mid-day to evening shots? Golden hour shots are very attractive. For our shopping centers, we pay two grand a day for outdoor shots only. Not sure what residential is going for. Usage fees need to be done up front. If it's a hired position, they will want full ownership of the photos. That's what we do. They may not even let you use them. You need to clarify this with them. I'd stay away from HDR with photos used for selling property. They need to look good and crisp, but not to the point of false advertising. </p>

[Spearhead]

<p>I started charging on scale based on the listing price and it seems to make the agents I work with happy. It's easy and it matches the way they think. Also, listing prices have gone up insanely here (San Francisco) so it's good. Your starter rate seems way too low. I would do $125 to photograph one room in a house I could walk to, not a townhome.</p>

<p>Also, most listings that don't involve the photographer bringing lighting, which pushes the price way up, are done with HDR photos. It's not done to provide false advertising, it's done to open up the space, especially if there is a lot of furniture, and balance the indoors with the scenes through the windows. Because so many photos are done this way now, the agents and the prospective buyers (and the sellers) expect it. Whether it's a "good" look or not is irrelevant, people who are buying get the correlation between photos and a walk-through pretty quickly.</p>

[joseph_kulha]

<p>Thanks for the responses! I'm still drawing a blank with usage fees though. Everything I look people either flat out won't say...or they direct to other places which you need to pay to use. </p>

<p>Can anybody give me a ballpark figure for usage fees? Like said in their memo, for about 5 years and my friend that sent it to me said she's recommending pricing it for full usage/all inclusive rights.</p>

<p>As for the starting figures for the shoots I've looked around for areas similar to mine and seemed about right. Some people said they were getting LESS than $100 per property. These are nicer/bigger homes but not necessarily mansions just nice single family homes, I have yet to see their townhomes. As I was looking around seemed like most people were hinting at charging less per home (or per day) and then charging a bigger all-inclusive usage fee to even it all out.</p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>$250 per room and you can include the usage rights.</p>

[2d]

<p>Your title says real estate but the memo reads more likely from a developer looking to have model units photographed so they can use them in brochures, regional advertising, website, etc.. Without knowing who the client is and where the images are going to be used you and everyone else is just guessing.</p>

<p>I work in the region you are speaking of and for development companies that need a broad regional usage plan (normally they are advertising in both Philly and DC markets - vacation/retirement homes) the going rate is between $2,500 to $4,000 per full day. (p.s. these numbers don't even come close to what they'll pay for small advertisements in the local papers/magazines - so when they say they don't have the budget ummm but you think the Washington Times publisher is going to bend to that excuse)</p>

<p>I hate when people say if they need to bring in lights the price goes up - just look at all the gorgeous natural light photography on this site does not having a strobe set up make it less of a piece of art? It's all about the usage licensed.</p>

<p>However I do agree you need to understand all the production costs both what they are expecting as well as what you will need to provide. They might be expecting some serious coin dropped on props while you will most certainly need to hire at least one assistant to help speed up your daily production and also to make sure that moving a piece of furniture does NOT scratch an $8,000 floor.</p>

<p>Wether you are shooting HDR or lighting the space correctly there is still a day+ of computer work attached to these projects that you need to put in your proposal, normally it almost equals the same amount you are charging for a single day of regional usage - don't think $50 is going to cover it. Propose just like you need to ship the files off to a digital tech because you might end up having to.</p>

<p>You need to Cowboy Up! and understand that these people even Realtors make serious and I mean Serious money off these home sales. (Who even goes home shopping anymore without first seeing the pictures that entice them into the neighborhood?! I know when I was looking my realtors were absolute morons and all my searching was online) The numbers you presented in your original post wouldn't even buy you a set of tires in this region or even treat your friends to a night out at a nice restaurant - is your photography less important than a meal, than a ski jacket, don't be afraid to charge a developer. They want an honest price, because at the end of the day they want an honest product so they can go home too.</p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>2 d I agree 100% with all that you said but I think by what i have read that Joseph is not at that level to charge such a rate having no experience in this field. He just stumbled onto this inquiry. He also indicated a very low rate that others were charging. People who pay $4,000 are going to hire a pro well experienced. This is not to say Joseph can't get that rate but I have my doubts based on what I have read.</p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p> Realtors make serious and I mean Serious money off these home sales. </p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

This depends on what market the realtor is in. The listing agent, who is usually covering the photography fees, will typically make 1.25% off a sale unless they also own the agency and/or become the selling agent and/or the buying agent. However, what I see in the market I'm in is that these are typically all separate people for most sales. Now take a typical midwestern market like Minneapolis. The average sale price is $225K. This means the listing agent gets $2,812 commission for the average home. They have to pay photography and advertising fees out of this commission. I wouldn't call $2200 "serious money," especially when average time on market is around 6 weeks. I don't shoot in Minneapolis, I just picked it as a "typical" city. Now if you look at what photographers in this typical city are asking, it's around $150-200 for a full house including virtual tour photos and hosting for the virtual tour.<br>

<br>

People in major markets (mine included) need to understand that the rest of the country isn't going to pay anything close to $2500/day or $250/room unless it's a mega-property. It's unrealistic to suggest this kind of fee to someone who works in a market where real estate sells for $100K - $300K and agents are making $2000 for the sale.<br>

<br>

Maybe if the OP states what market he is in it will be easier to tell what he can get.</p>

[2d]

<blockquote>

<p>"Joseph is not at that level to charge such a rate having no experience in this field... He also indicated a very low rate that others were charging."</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

I don't know Joseph nor do I mean to offend him or anyone. The original question was what are the typical rates for this kind of work and knowing this market I gave my answer. I feel it's about the licensing and not the quality, let the developer choose the right photographer based on images not on price and in that respect I believe the OP or anyone should charge these honest rates. $150 per single family house that's looney talk nobody is charging that! (and staying in business) My other point is: It is ok to turn down work that is over your head verses under pricing - I did it this week - I respect other genres and am honest to refer clients to better options. Telling a client next time I'll be better does not get you portfolio pieces. Working as an assistant until these questions are immaterial is a much better option.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p> "I wouldn't call $2200 "serious money,""</p>

</blockquote>

<p>For what a Realtor provides anything more than $50 dollars is serious (they make Politicians look good) ;-) I was using them as an example that even at the bottom, money was being made off of the marketing efforts and it's ok to charge a fair price. However where the OP is at the Realtors get a much higher percentage than what you quoted, try $7000 for that same house and for what, to show up at three half hour meetings?! My reply was mostly aimed at the idea of a developer who would need a multiple year license and the language requesting usage beyond what a realtor would even think of needing.<br>

Of course if $2,200 isn't serious money then why is it a problem for photographers to charge it? What I really disagree with is this idea of cutting down our fellow photographers giving them excuse after excuse why it's ok to lowball and be afraid to ask for honest prices. I just needed to have a fuel pump put into my gas tank (thanks Ford) Had my Dad check on prices in a very very rural part of our country the quote was only $100 less than here in my major market. Took them less time than what it will take Joseph to do a full Single Family home </p>

<p>The simple fact no matter where you live in this country you need expensive equipment, expensive computers and a lot of time to accomplish this type of work. It is ok for us photographers, visual communication experts, to charge fair prices. We are a business with a CODB ( most likely living in a rural area you can't book as many days to counter those costs = a higher CODB) and we should charge fair prices. $500 for an entire day minus all the production expenses, minus all the equipment overhead, minus the endless hours of educating ourselves either on forums, workshops or just practicing at the Grand Canyon is not fair to our business nor will it provide an honest product to a client who will be paying much much more to have those images appear in the local publications. Call up the Washington Times or Richmond's paper and ask how much for a 1/4page ad for 5 years? Is it fair to the client to pay all that for crappy overly rushed photos that in the end won't communicate their message?</p>

[alita_ethelinda]

<p>I personally think that hourly rate is the best option. However, you may also provide different packages to each client while maintaining a standard fee. Add-ons are great.<br>

Do take note that location is also a big factor. <br>

Do not post your pricing on your website. Let the customers contact you so that you can have a better chance of closing the deal. Do make your portfolio enticing though. </p>

[peter_michelena3]

I photographed a luxury home in Los Angeles as a favor for a close friend who wanted pictures of the home to remember it by, since they

were selling it and it was the home they had grown up in. As a professional photographer, I shot and edited the images beautifully and

although I am not a real estate photographer per se, the pictures are comparable to any a skilled real estate photographer might produce.

The realtor is now interested in the pictures, since they show the house as a fully furnished home, not as it is presently- empty and cold. I

would love to hear some thoughts as to how to price the pictures for the realtor. There are both complete multi angle interior and exterior

shots in the portfolio, approximately 30 images in total. Thanks!