Coolscan 9000 and glass for MF scanning

[philip_dygeus2]

<p>Hello everyone</p>

<p>I've searched and read lots of threads, here and at other fora, about how to achieve edge-to-edge sharpness when scanning 120 film (my case 6x6) with the 9000 and the 869S holder.</p>

<p>I'm looking for thoughts on what is the preferred way - Focal Point's glass or the DIY route? As I live in Europe I am not sure it's possible if the FP glass makes economic sense, which is why I am wondering about the DIY option.</p>

<p>FP's site isn't clear on whether one should use two glass sheets - one clear under the film and one AN on top - or just the AN glass.</p>

<p>I must say that I'm intrigued by the DIY route but if I were to build my own glass carrier using the 869S what thickness should the glass have? I've read 1mm but is that for using one sheet or two sheets in this holder?</p>

<p>And what specifications should it be? Some people use "anti-reflex" glass or "museum" glass, but that is not, as far as I understand, the same as Anti-Newton glass, which I believe has a slightly "frosted" side. </p>

<p>Is it possible to use the clamps in the 869S holder if one puts glass in it and does it make a difference if one puts one or two sheets? Or are the clamps not necessary?</p>

<p>And, lastly, if I embark on the DIY route, it seems I could then also create my own fluid scanning mount (using other glass, I guess). </p>

<p>Apologies for the many questions. Looking forward to your thoughts on this.</p>

<p>Br<br />Philip</p>

 

[JDMvW]

<p>I just got a 9000 scanner, and I have been looking for one of the commercial versions of glass holders (such as the Nikon FH 869G 120mm glass holder) made for it, but the only mentions I've found of prices are very pricy (ca. US$700 for just the holder).<br /> Have you tried the scanner with the 869S 6cm holder and found a severe problem?</p>

<p>In any case, I'll also be looking at what experienced 9000 users report.</p>

[Craig_Cooper11664875449]

<p>I use a single sheet of FP AN glass on top of the neg with my 9000. I use the standard holder, I basically removed the rubber strips the film sits on, tighten down the big screw so the moving side of the clamp stays fixed at an appropriate width. With this done, I can lock down the standard holder as usual with the film and single sheet of AN glass. The more the neg is concave from the emulsion side, the flatter things seem to be.</p>

[philip_dygeus2]

<p>Thanks for the replies.</p>

<p>JDM, congrats on the 9000. It is a great scanner, I think.</p>

<p>I have found the 869S - even with fairly flat 120 negs - to produce softer scans at the edges (around 0,5-1cm from the edge, depending on the curvature of the neg). In some images, where the background is out of focus anyway, this won't matter but for many images, like landscapes and city scapes, this will degrade the image, I find. But regardless of the kind of image I would want to be able to have a "sharp" scan across the image.</p>

<p>Craig, that is very interesting to hear, thank you for sharing your experience.</p>

<p>Just so I fully understand - the rubber strip you refer to is at no. 1, right? Did you also remove the one at no. 2, i.e. on the clamps themselves? I am asking because there appears to be very little flex in the clamps when locked down. Since both strips are really quite thin perhaps one should remove both? And how thick is the FP AN glass, approximately?</p>

<p>I am curious about different glass types, though.</p>

<p>Will Newton rings with a high degree of certainty appear with "ordinary" glass? Will anti-glare glass have any effect at all? If not, will a glass dealer know what I mean by Anti-Newton glass or is that some specialty glass only to be found with a firm dealing in optics?</p>

<p>Thank you for any further thoughts.</p>

<p>Best</p>

<p>Philip</p>

<p><img src="http://s20.postimg.org/szmcd6lbh/869_S.jpg" alt="" /></p>

[john_wiegerink1]

<p>If you are going to try regular glass you might not get Newton rings. It has much to do with humidity as to whether they show up or not. If they do you can try scanning with the emulsion facing the glass. This helps reduce the chance of Newtons rings, but it might not hold the negative as flat. It doesn't cost anything to try it anyway.</p>

[Craig_Cooper11664875449]

<p>Hi Philip, yes No1 is the rubber strip I removed; I did not remove the top one on the clamp. I forget the specific thickness of the FP glass now (I'm away from my scanner) but its probably 1mm or less. I need to be careful clamping the holder down (and releasing them). I have cracked a corner off one piece of glass (still useable) when I first started using this method. John's advice is worth trying if you have a piece of non-AN glass but if you're going to purchase it, my suggestion would be to order at least 2 pieces of AN glass (the 2nd as a spare)</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Will Newton rings with a high degree of certainty appear with "ordinary" glass? Will anti-glare glass have any effect at all? If not, will a glass dealer know what I mean by Anti-Newton glass or is that some specialty glass only to be found with a firm dealing in optics?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Reading this part of your comment, note that AN glass is glass with a minute laser etched grid over one surface. It basically eliminates the glass having a shiny surface in contact with the shiny side of the film, so anti-glare glass is certainly not the same thing or a suitable substitute. I would give general glass dealers a miss; this is a reasonably precision piece of very thin glass. Focal Point provide this in a specific size for the scanner, and at a thickness that would allow you to use a single sheet with the standard holder.</p>

[philip_dygeus2]

<p>John, thank you for your thoughts. I wasn't aware humidity could be a factor as well. </p>

<p>Craig, thank you for the information. 1mm is certainly very thin so more than one sheet would be useful ex abundanti cautela etc. I am wondering if there is any hardened AN glass around (thinking here about the glass covers one can put on mobile phones today).</p>

<p>I also take your point re the anti-glare glass. So the etched surface is in order to reduce extra glare from the shiny side of the film, is that right?</p>

<p>About glass types, I have found <a href="http://www.apug.org/forums/forum43/26407-source-optically-flat-glass.html">this APUG thread</a> with a few companies mentioned. Howard Glass (US) is one. A European firm is <a href="http://www.knightoptical.com/stock/optical-components/uvvisnir-optics/diffusers/anti-newton-glass-diffusers/">Knight Optical (UK)</a> which specifically sells AN glass, though it is 3mm in thickness.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Thanks all. This will be useful.</p>

[jens_g.r._benthien]

<p>If you use a glass which is etched too coarse or simply too much, the LS 9000 will start, perform the calibration and then stop with an error. I've experienced this effect with a replacement glass for my FH 869G.<br>

<br>

BTW, a manual for the FH 896S is here: http://www.dantestella.com/technical/nikonholder.html<br>

<br>

Sometimes it works, sometimes not.<br>

<br>

http://www.betterscanning.com used to have glass plates for the LS 9000, and scan science still offers them:<br>

http://www.scanscience.com/Pages/MyScanner/A-FilmScanners/2-Nikon9K-8K.html<br>

<br>

You can even get Newton rings with the FH 869G holder, if the humidity in the room with the scanner is too high. Then just use a hair dryer and blow the film as well as the holder to dry and warm them up, then pull the film through a Kinetronics antistat vac cleaner and scan.<br>

<br>

As an alternative you can place your film sleeves for an hour onto an old light table (no LED) with a slightly warm surface. This will bend the film strip, so that only the top side will have contact to the AN glass.</p>

[gerber_van_der_graaf]

<p>Just an idea: Durst Pro USA is advertising with glass for negative holders for enlargers. The glass is colorless, instead of green in case of normal glass, made by Scotch. In order to avoid Newton rings, it seems that an Anti Reflective coating on the glass seems to suffice. After some searching on the Web, I found that Scotch glass sheets can be obtained from different providers, but will probably have to be bought in large quantities. I didn't try it by myself, but found the idea intriguing as well as for enlarging as for scanning.</p>

[philip_dygeus2]

<p>Thanks for the further posts. </p>

<p>In the meantime, I have received my order from Focal Point (excellent service) of two pieces of AN glass and plain glass. My initial tests are very positive, indeed.</p>