x_wang Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 <p>I'm looking for a middle arrange PC for photo processing, any recommendation please?<br /> I just had a look of John Lewis' HP computers. HP Pavilion 500-515&500-570 both have dedicated cards, but <br /> 515 is: AMD Radeon R7240 2GB; <br /> Memory 8GB <br /> Processor speed 3.4 to 4.0GHz <br> <br /> 570 is: NVIDIA GeForce GT705 1GB <br> Memory 12GB <br> Processor speed 3.6 to 4.0 Hz <br> <br /> Lenovo H50, is also NVIDIA GeForce GT 705 (1 GB);<br> 8GB memory<br> 3.2 GHz / 3.4 GHz <br /> <br /> Is NVIDIA GeForce GT 705 more efficient, hence 1GB memory is enough for graphic work? Or AMD Radeon has more room so,it's better for photo processing? <br /> Anyway, I'd like to have some ideas from you, anything, I don't know much about computer. I use CS6 and Lightroom5 sometimes; Camera is 22.3MP. Thanks.<br /> Jasmine</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hapien Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 <p>Photoshop uses GPU processing in only limited functions. Perhaps most used of them is rotate. You might want to visit <a href="https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/policy-pricing/cs6-system-requirements.html">System requirements</a> and <a href="https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/photoshop-cs6-gpu-faq.html">Photoshop CS6 GPU FAQ</a>. Traditionally more processor power, more memory and a better graphics card are seen as key to reduce computer time. Each version of Photoshop has slightly different specifications requirements, so if You are planning to go CC, check those too. Computers at stores that are marketed as workstations or for light gaming are rather good at image processing.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_george_herrmann Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 As per the Adobe white paper Choose more physical cores versus a faster processor with less cores when picking CPU. More RAM is always better in both the computer and the graphics. Fill up all the RAM DIMM slots with matching RAM for best performance. With Photoshop, it suggests 8GB as the sweet spot for computer ram. Unless you have a brand preference AMD versus NVidia, go with what has more video RAM on the card. Finally the OS and Apps should be on a dedicated SSD. Data should be on a separate drive. How you setup that different drive is up to you. A simple file system is ok, but Adobe suggests a RAID array for best performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 <p>Jasmine, I'd chose a Dell over those low-end HP's. You can also purchase directly from Micorsoft now. It's a bit more expensive, but it doesn't come loaded with bloatware and 30 different trial versions that will constantly pop up and pester you for attention.<br> </p> <blockquote> <p> <br> <br> Choose more physical cores versus a faster processor with less cores when picking CPU.</p> </blockquote> <p>With Lightroom, yes. With Photoshop, no. Photoshop isn't coded to run on multi-threaded cores, therefore anything over a quad-core, is waste imo. Money is better spent on a $400 4.0ghz quad-core as one will certainly have better Photoshop performance on the quad-core than otherwise on a slower $700 3.5ghz six-core or even a $1200 3.0ghz octa-core.</p> <p>It is the opposite with Lightroom. It is coded to run on multiple cores and therefore spending more money on a $700 3.5ghz six-core, will give you a faster performance than a $400 4.0ghz quad-core. Lightroom doesn't need ram or gpu to the extent of Photoshop.</p> <p>Photoshop needs ram and feel that 8gb is the bare min today. I run 32gb and often use 100% of it.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_wang Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 <p>Hi Tuomas, Richard,<br> Thank you both very much for your helpful replies.<br> I can't build computer myself. Apart from faster processor; Larger RAM, could you tell me more about dedicated cards? You see, (HP515) AMD Radeon R7240 uses 2GB memory;(HP570) NVIDIA GeForce GT705 uses 1GB memory. How do I understand this please? Is it the more dedicated memory, the better, regardless the total memory in computer? </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_wang Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 <p>Thank you Eric. I didn't see your comment coming. I didn't know that computer wise, there is difference between PS to LR. I did have a look of Dell, called Alienware Alpha, looks like for games. It costs more than I want to pay, the reason that I don't want to get an expensive one is that the prices are going down a lot and they only last about 4 or 5 years...Yes, I was told 2 GB memory was enough for photo editing a few years ago, so I bought a 3GB one, and now as you said, 8gb is the bare min today.. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_darnton2 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 <p>I'm not going to suggest less, but I often wonder how these absolute statements come about regarding how much processing power is "necessary". I say that because for the last eight years or so I have been doing all of my photo editing on netbooks. The most recent computer I bought cost me $249. I have access to a fancy Mac with all the bells and whistles and a gigantic screen, but I prefer Windows, and have never felt like my crummy little computers were lagging except for once in a while when a job takes five seconds instead of one. I can waste the four seconds--my life isn't THAT tight!</p> <p>What I do comes from a 12Mp camera, and involves multiple layers and masks, a lot of cutting and pasting of full-size images into enlarged canvasses, etc, so very quickly these become the equivalent of 24Mp camera images in overall size. Because I'm working on complex originals, there's no batch conversions going on, which I guess could make a difference, and maybe if I was working with 300Mp drum scans from 8x10 film, I would need something better, but for normal things? No.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_george_herrmann Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Did anyone read the white paper from Adobe? Its goes into great detail on hardware requirements. For this discussion, Photoshop is similar enough to Lightroom in regards to hardware acceleration technologies exposed via OpenGL, OpenCL, and CUDA. To get the most of a computer system, the white paper goes further into why stand alone PCIE x16 graphics adapters are the right choice. Look at the section called "Photoshop CC Basic System Requirements" to see what Adobe recommends. Its the minimum, so when on a budget, it will be good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_wang Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 <p>Thank you Michael. Well done you for your $249 computer. If it works well and does what you need to do, it's perfect. My computer worked well until I upgraded camera a couple of years ago.. slow is not only the problem, I couldn't use brush tool a few days ago.. not enough memory. Some of the game computers is about this price. I just saw one <a href="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ULTRA-FAST-CCL-4-20GHz-AMD-Quad-Core-Gaming-PC-8GB-RAM-1TB-HDD-Radeon-HD/181544473992?rt=nc">http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ULTRA-FAST-CCL-4-20GHz-AMD-Quad-Core-Gaming-PC-8GB-RAM-1TB-HDD-Radeon-HD/181544473992?rt=nc</a> I would like to have this price, but I just don't know if it is good for photo editing. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_wang Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 <p>Thank you Richard. I had a quick look in the morning. HP NVIDIA GeForce graphic cards only listed to 600. AMD Radeon is fine up to 7000 series...I'll have another look later.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 <p> </p> <blockquote> <p>Did anyone read the white paper from Adobe? Its goes into great detail on hardware requirements.</p> </blockquote> <p>Is there something in this thread that counters the white paper or your conclusion of it? I always find the Adobe "white" papers vague. It's nice however that they have finally typed more than three sentences on video cards this time, and are a bit more specific. The CS6 PS Optimize Hardware white paper links to a third party article on ssds that states that ssd showed little or no improvement...historically, the white papers are taken with a grain of salt and even countered by others like DigLloyd and SLR Lounge. This CC article leads us to believe 8gb of ram is "the sweet spot"?</p> <blockquote> <p>For this discussion, Photoshop is similar enough to Lightroom in regards to hardware acceleration technologies exposed via OpenGL, OpenCL, and CUDA.</p> </blockquote> <p>I disagree with this. Maybe things have changed with Lr and I didn't notice, but as far as I know, Lr doesn't use OpenGL, OpenCL, or CUDA. Lightroom doesn't use gpu to the extent that Ps does. Depending on the size of your monitor and the size of your previews in Lr, usually the on-board graphics of the cpu is enough to drive Lr.</p> <p>For cpu, Lr and Ps are also written entirely different and use cpu resources differently. Anyone that works in both Ps and Lr and keeps an eye on their cpu monitor while working, knows this. My i7, with four real cores and four virtual cores, will use all 8 cores in Lr and only 4 cores in Ps.</p> <p>If you are under a budget and building a computer primarily for Ps, you would spend the money on a fast cpu quad core, lots of ram, and a decent gpu. If you are building a computer primarily for Lr, you would spend the money on a more expensive 6 or 8 core cpu, not needing as much ram, and probably a low-end gpu. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 <p>If your budget is tight that AMD quad core box with 8GB RAM will be adequate for Lightroom. That's very similar to my desktop, a very modest minitower. Good enough for processing raw files, including brushwork and the heal/clone tool. Handles batch processing just fine too, including occasional batch processing of hundreds of raw files intended for time lapse videos.</p> <p>No idea about Photoshop. I'm still using ancient copies of Jasc Paint Shop Pro and Corel Photo Paint for my rare pixel level editing needs. Once in awhile I'll use the clone tool, channel mixer for infrared photos, or work in layers. Some functions, such as unsharp masking, are no quicker with my AMD quad core and Windows 7 PC than with my ancient Pentium II with Windows ME. I probably should upgrade my pixel level editing software, but I don't use it often enough to justify the cost of Photoshop, or even the reasonably priced cloud subscription service.</p> <p>If I anticipated using Photoshop a lot for raw files with cameras greater than 12 megapickles, I'd look for a desktop that can accommodate up to at least 16GB RAM. My minitower is maxed out at 8GB.</p> <p>Regarding GPU, at the moment I'm aware of only one photo editing program that's very GPU-intensive: onOne's Perfect Suite. It really crawls with my desktop, which has only basic on-mobo graphics. Perfect Effects 8 runs a bit better on my AMD dual core 1.5GHz laptop, mostly because of the better GPU on AMD's more recent processors. For the same reason the low end laptop will run some 3D games better than the desktop. I really need to upgrade the desktop's GPU, although it doesn't need a high end gaming card.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_wang Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 <p>Thanks again, Eric. As I said that I don't know much about computer. I wonder how I specify CPU and GPU When you said:"a fast cpu..", did you mean the processor speed? I haven't noticed the GPU number on the Features list. I actually learnt a lot about computer, I have never heard GPU before... but I would still like to understand more about dedicated cards that I mentioned above. <br> Thanks Lex. I don't use onOne and Perfect Effect 8. Do you know that Perfect Effect 9 is free now? I used to use PSP, changed to PS a few years ago... I don't know how my computer works, only know that the "Fill" doesn't work properly on large file, when the brush tool didn't work due to lack of memory, I thought that I should search for a new one...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_george_herrmann Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Photoshop uses all available physical cores. Lightroom uses all available logical cores via Hyper-threading. The white paper discusses why they use different methods. Lightroom uses some assist, or at least reports their existence in the System Information dump. Here is the results from Lightroom 5.7 Help...System Information and scroll to the bottom of the report CardID: 4480 Direct2DEnabled: false GPUDevice: D3D MaxTexture2DSize: 8192 OGLEnabled: true Renderer: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 ShaderModel: 11.1 Vendor: Nvidia VendorID: 4318 Version: 10de:1180:26803842:00a1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_george_herrmann Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 To be more specific, Photoshop creates threads using something called Processor affinity to tie work to a single processor core. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Processor_affinity Apps that use simpler threading techniques create threads and let the OS manage multi-processing via Hyper-threading. Kinda off topic, but the OP is looking for a machine to run Photoshop CS6. I'd bite the bullet and upgrade to Photoshop CC due to OpenCL detection problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 <blockquote> <p>Photoshop uses all available physical cores. Lightroom uses all available logical cores via Hyper-threading. The white paper discusses why they use different methods.</p> </blockquote> <p><br /> Yes. But I'm not sure what you are trying to point out, Richard? If you have a six core cpu with hyperthreading, Ps will only use the 6 real cores but Lr will use the 6 real plus the 6 available from hyperthreading, and making it 12. That's what I've typed here, already.<br /> <br /> I've also typed that a cpu with fewer number of cores running at faster frequencies (ie. quad core @ 4.4ghz) will feed the gpu more effectively than a cpu with more cores operating at lower frequencies (six-core @ 3.6ghz). There is also the law of diminishing returns. <br /> </p> <blockquote> <p>Kinda off topic, but the OP is looking for a machine to run Photoshop CS6. </p> </blockquote> <p> <br> The op said in the last sentence both Ps and Lr.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 <blockquote> <p>Thanks again, Eric. As I said that I don't know much about computer. I wonder how I specify CPU and GPU When you said:"a fast cpu..", did you mean the processor speed?</p> </blockquote> <p> <br> You're welcome, Jasmine. Yes, fast cpu means the frequency and is measured in GHz. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_wang Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 <p>Thank you Richard.<br> Thank you Eric.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_george_herrmann Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Hyper threading makes one physical core appear as two logical cores for an OS to run separate threads. For example, Lightroom uses threading for simple things like File..Export. Lightroom fires up a worker thread to open the .RAW file, read the contents, apply settings from the catalog, create the export file, write the cooked contents to the export file, close the source and the export file. Easy for threading to perform since its a serialized workflow with OS managed thread safe objects. Hyper-threading is made for this type of multi-threading. Works great! Photoshop works directly with the CPU, the RAM, and optionally the GPU to do complex operations that need exclusive access. These operations are handled directly by Adobe. They have to manage access since the OS cannot easily make direct hardware access thread safe. Without processor affinity, multiple thread code could result in race conditions or getting locked out entirely waiting on another thread fighting over the same resources with hyper-threading. Adobe avoids resource conflicts making their code thread safe manually. One core, one system RAM memory window, one gpu working with its RAM and cores, all working in cooperation in a single worker thread. Does this help answer the "why" they are different? I use too many run-on sentences :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 We know they are different. No one suggested otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_wang Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 <p>Interesting to know.. Thank you both. :-)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven_clark Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Keep in mind we are arguing about how to build the best "race car" of Photoshop. Probably anything not low-end (Athlon, Atom, Celeron, or Pentium, Core 2 chips) will be sufficient if it has enough memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_wang Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 <p>Thank you Steven.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_cox3 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 <p>I'd stay away from Lenova. They are the ones recent caught shipping sneak-ware hidden on their computers. Experts claimed it compromised the security of all those computers as well. Goggle for exact story.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now