Tri-x and Xtol my 120 format trip through hell.

[justin_fullmer1]

I recently acquired a nice mamiya c22o and have been using a weston

master II light meter for the readings and also my nikons. What I am

finding out is that I am severly underexposing (thin, mostly clear)

the negatives. I have been shooting tri-x rated at iso 320 and

bracketing several stops in each direction in order to pin down

exposure and development times. I develop in Xtol 1-2 at 68 deg. for

6 to 7 minutes. Several rolls now are comming back underexposed. I

know that it is not the developer because I have developed some 35mm

rolls in the same soup on the same night and they were great. I had

suspicions about the weston meter I was using and so used my Nikon f5

for some readings but still the same problem. I am wondering if the

120 version of tri-x just requires a lot shorter development time.

Anyone have any ideas on what I should do next. How about your times

and temps for tri-x 120 in Xtol.

Thankyou for taking the time to respond!!!

[chris_patti1]

Times should be the same for 120 and 35mm. My guess is that your shutter is seriously off.

[thomas_t]

I've not experienced any difference in 35mm versus 120 Tri-X 400. Since your F5 yield the same results that leaves only your mamiya shutter speed being off.

[richardcook]

Like others, I think this is probably a shutter problem, which is common with these older cameras. You should at least have the shutter tested for speed, which would cost you little or nothing at a reputable camera repair shop. Clean-lubricate-adjust (CLA) may fix the problem -- if the lens takes pictures at all is is more likely to be sticky shutter than anything else. A CLA for my Mamiya 180mm lens cost me a little over $125 a couple of years ago. Well worth it!

[brian_c._miller]

I think some of the problem is in your development. That dilution and time sounds OK for Xtol 1:1, but at 1:2 I would give it more time.

 

Xtol requires a certain minimum amount of stock chemistry to operate. Kodak recommends 100mL, and Jobo recommends 200mL with certain films.

 

The camera shutter can also be a problem. I'm unfamiliar with the Mamiya shutter, but as a general rule older shutters don't the timing correctly, and it will stay in its fast speeds. An easy way to test this is by seeing if the exposures for your high speeds look OK.

[kevin_kolosky]

Justin

 

I too suspect the developer. You stated that you were bracketing several stops both ways. Surely,if you were doing that you should have been able to detect by sound whether the shutter was operating at the same speed each time. Also, what are you using to nail down a "rock" to determine what the correct negative looks like. Have you done a maxiumum black for minimum time test on your paper with a clear negative so that you can compare a zone 1 neg to see if you are getting a slight tone. If you don't have a rock to stand on you might be all over the place and never know what is what.

 

Start over with fresh chemistry, but before you shoot, listen to see if that shutter is sounding correct for each speed. And also, make sure that you measure the temperature and keep the temperature constant during development, and that you do the correct agitation procedures during development.

 

Kevin

[ahaohio]

I shoot mainly tri-x on a C220 (with the shutter adjusted and accurate on all speeds). I develop the 120 tri-x using same times and sames soup (HC-110 dil B) as my 35mm. All negatives show normal density. I think your shutter is off.

[howard_anderson1]

Kodak Technical data/Chemicals - J-109 - Kodak XTOL developer -

states:

Kodak TRI-X Pro 400 at 1:2 dilution at 68 deg. - 10.25 minutes.

Kodak Tri-X TXP 320 " " - 12.00 minutes.

for 120 or 220 film.

[henry_a]

Kevin! He said the developer worked fine for his 35mm film, its not the developer. Justin, I think its the shutter too - get it checked out.

[justin_fullmer1]

Thanks to everybody for responding. I know that its not my development I have it down to a science now and the test roll from the F5 confirmed that. I contacted a local repair guy and he is going to take a look at the shutter. I too suspect that this might be the problem but was hoping that I wasn't going to have spend another hundred to get going into medium format but oh well lifes too short.

[gphoto2]

I shoot Tri-X in 120 format with my old Rollei. I use EV of 250 and Xtol 1:1 in a Jobo for 6.5 mins at 70 Deg. Please remember that there is a 400 speed and 320 speed film in the 120 format size. However in my past experience I notice little differenct between the two in terms of exposure and development.

 

Your time of 6-7 mins at a dilution of 1:2 sounds a bit short to me. I would suggest you try a lowever EV and a bit longer developement. I do not like the blocked up shadows and therefore use the 250 EV more as insurance.

 

Paul Grant

[squareframe]

of what value is this thread then? 'I develop films from every camera known to man/woman and my TX films in Xtol are perfect. I acquired a C220 and lightmeter, and my negatives are hopelessy underexposed'. just what would you like us to enlighten you with? camera? lightmeter? both?

 

I personally think your development times with diluted Xtol are way too short, but I won't argue with the fact that films from other cameras developed correctly. TX generally does well with shorter times so it sounds like the typical shutter grease problem. best of luck.