Winding Issue

[kenneth_smith7]

<p>I picked up a Mamiya 645 1000S recently, and was surprised that after 15 shots the camera still cocked the shutter, instead of winding the film up. I have to wind and fire the shutter all the way until the film is completely spooled. The multi exposure function switch is not in use.<br>

I have an 645 where as it should, after 15 shots the winder then continues thru until the film is completely wound. Am I overlooking a setting somewhere.? I am using 120 film cartridges, not 220. This is also just a hand winding crank, not a motor. Is there a 220 setting that I need to undo, I wonder?</p>

[stuart_rennie]

<p>Mamiya first series (M645, M645J and M645 1000S) winding issues have been dealt with many times on this forum. Search previous discussions and you will find everything you need to know.</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<blockquote>

<p>issues have been dealt with many times on this forum. Search previous discussions and you will find everything you need to know.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>There is a major problem with such advise, the information may be buried in a thread with an unrelated title, the question may be ask differently using general terms not technically accurate terms. A better response would be to post a link to a thread with the desired information or the search term that will produce the desired results.<br>

I have searched this site as well as other photo sites for information using correct technical terms only to get such a response with no clue as to what shade tree colloquialism the answer is hidden under.<br>

Be sure to search for winding doohickey, wind gismo, and winding doodad failure.<br>

If you search for your camera model and name you're in for hours of reading.<br>

http://www.photo.net/search/?cx=006577976762569540560%3A1n8vmghdzjw&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&section=all&q=Mamiya+645+1000S&filter=0&sa.x=24&sa.y=12</p>

 

[ondebanks]

<blockquote>

<p>Is there a 220 setting that I need to undo, I wonder?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No. Merely using a 220 insert is the only "setting" for the camera to "know" that 220 film is being used. There's a mechanical difference at the right hand face of the 220 insert, which makes it interact differently with the frame counter gearing than a 120 insert does.</p>

<p>So since you are using a 120 insert, it should automatically wind off after 15 exposures. </p>

<p>Since you have another 645 body, try swapping its 120 insert over to the body which is misbehaving. That would rule in/out a problem with the insert itself.</p>

<p>Next thing I would investigate is if the gearing inside the film chamber on the right hand side is functioning ok. The larger gear in the top right corner may become worn from a lot of use.</p>

 

[CoryAmmerman]

<p>There's a couple of different possibilities of what is happening. either your frame counter is not advancing all the way to 15, meaning that the camera has no way of knowing that the roll is finished. The other is that the camera "thinks" there is a 220 roll in there. I have a 1000s, but only a 120 insert so I have no first hand knowledge. Apparently there is a tab on the 220 inserts that presses a lever inside the camera, telling it that a 220 insert is in and allowing the frame counter to advance past 15. Its possible that this lever is stuck in the 220 position.</p>

<p>It's also possible that someone monkeyed with your insert to try to use 220 film in it. Here's the tread where I'm getting this info: <a href="https://www.flickr.com/groups/mamiyalove/discuss/72157622749674202/">https://www.flickr.com/groups/mamiyalove/discuss/72157622749674202/</a></p>

<p>Scroll down to a rather lengthy post by someone called "exposherman" for more differences between the 120 and 220 inserts.</p>

[kenneth_smith7]

<p>Thank You Cory, and Ray Charles. Stuart... <br /> The counter does read 15, so the gear inside the camera and on the insert will get a look at, as soon as I finish this roll. <br /> Wonderful, wonderful cameras. I picked up these two as a Xmas gift to myself and am having a ball. Always had the bigger medium formats, but not these. They make stunning 11x14's.</p>

[kenneth_smith7]

<p>Just to follow up. It still does this. All the gears in the camera, and the film spools look practically new, and I don't see signs of tampering. Hmmm... oh well, at least there is no overlapping. It shoots the 15th, and cranks for the next shot without a problem, I just need to be aware that there is no next shot. </p>

[ondebanks]

<p>I took some shots that may be helpful.</p>

<p>First, the lever at the right hand side of the film chamber which moves upwards when a 220 insert is inserted. I verified that with the frame counter at 15, and no insert, winding cannot continue; but holding this lever upwards with a finger releases something which does allows winding to continue. Maybe this lever is somehow jammed upwards on Kenneth's camera?<br>

<img src="http://imageshack.com/a/img540/8774/5tKXtU.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>Second, a 220 insert. Note the triangular appendage on the side which engages that lever.<br>

<img src="http://imageshack.com/a/img538/9364/5msaa7.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>Third, a 120 insert. Note the lack of the triangular appendage (although the holes are pre-drilled for it). The other difference (which can't be seen from this angle) is the lack of pressure plate side-channel milling in the 120 insert.<br>

<img src="http://imageshack.com/a/img538/4031/rILebb.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>Also, my memory was flawed when I referred above to "the larger gear in the top right corner". When taking the chamber pic above I realised that I meant the slightly <em>smaller</em> gear (silvery and fine-toothed), in the <em>middle</em> of the right hand side!</p>

[kenneth_smith7]

The lever at the right hand side that moves upwards when a 220 is inserted, is in the correct position for 120, and is flexible. The camera still continues to cock instead of wind through.

 

One thing I did notice was that when the camera back was popped open, there is another lever where the light seal is on the bottom right side, and when it moves out, then the crank continues to wind. As long as the door is closed and this lever is pressed inwards, the crank cocks shutter. That is the only part whose function seems to affect this, though this is merely doing what it should do, I'll assume, whenever the door is open. Perhaps there is some link though.

 

Bravo Mr. Butler on your very considerable effort and presentation. Much thanks sir.

 

 

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