Unique Problem- Sigma Lens not working

[justin_formentin]

<p>Bought an old EOS Elan 7e with a Sigma AF Super-Wide II 2.8 24mm lens. It only takes pictures in Portrait Mode. In any other mode the mirror flips up, stays there, does not take a picture, and the battery light flashes empty. I put the lens on an EOS A2 and it works fine, albeit a sharp fast ticking noise when you touch the shutter with the camera off. Every other lens I've put on the Elan 7e works, so I thought it was the lens, but then the lens works on the A2. What's going on?</p>

[jamie_robertson2]

<p>Sigma incompatibility. It was a big deal back then. Sigma used to re-chip the lenses for owners when a new EOS body was released. Now you have no chance, you'll just have to use the lens on a Canon body that will accept it.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>I'm not sure that Canon ever licensed the EOS/EF OS to anyone, so all (or most) of the third-party lenses systems for EOS have been "reverse engineered". Unlike Tamron or Tokina, there was either something missing in Sigma's initial effort, or perhaps "someone" discovered something odd in Sigma's version and tweaked EOS to break it.<br /> Whichever, this is a well-known issue. Like Jamie, I understand that Sigma will no longer re-chip the old lenses.<br /> However, every so often on some British websites, I see references to re-chipping still taking place, so it might not hurt to contact the British Sigma support people to see if they are still at it. I'd even ask Sigma themselves in the USA or wherever you are at, first.<br /> On other questions, I've actually got pretty quick responses from Sigma support.</p>

[justin_formentin]

<p>Thanks for your response. I was playing around with it and I realized that I CAN take pictures, but only when the aperture is set to 2.8. I'm not very experienced in photography, so does this make sense? Since the lens says 2.8 on it, would I only be able to take pictures with a 2.8 aperture setting?<br>

(When using another lens that says 1.8 on it I can take pictures on every aperture from 1.8 to 22.)</p>

[ruben leal]

Justin, first a clarification: When you say "Portrait Mode", do you mean the camera mode dial is set to the icon of a

portrait, or do you mean your camera must be in a vertical position (also known as "Portrait Orientation") for you to take

the picture?

 

While the Sigma incompatibility with certain EOS bodies was a well known problem back in the day of film cameras, I

don't remember ther was any workaround to make it work, then is quite odd that you could use it anyhow.

 

The camera portrait mode (the one with the portrait icon) will try to expose for a shallow depth of field, which is achieved

with a large aperture, then the camera will try f/2.8 as a starting point, as that's the widest aperture supported by your

lens, which is the diafragram aperture you said you were able to use (didn't said if in Av or Manual mode) with that

camera-lens combination. Then that would make some sense as there is some behavior pattern you discovered.

 

On the other hand, if you mean in portrait orientation (having the camera in vertical position), I would also ask if you are

using a battery pack with a vertical shutter. While the lens shouldn't matter in this case, sometimes the vertical shutter

could cause some differences.

 

By the way, in your second post you ask if you will only be able to take photos at f/2.8 or if you will be able to use all the

aperture range. I guess we can't answer this without knowing how you set your camera to f/2.8. For example, if you set

your camera to portrait mode, and there is so much light to expose at f/2.8 with the fastest shutter speed available in your

camera (perhaps 1/8,000s?) you will notice one of two options in your viewfinder:

a) The aperture closes to f/4 or whatever needed to obtain the proper exposure, or

b) The maximum Shutter speed blinks, warning you that the photo will be overexposed.

[dave_redmann]

<p>Just so you understand, this is not really a Sigma-lens-on-Canon-body issue--it is a <strong>Sigma issue</strong>, plain and simple. At various times, various Sigma lenses have not worked properly (in some cases, almost not at all) on many of the newer Canon, Nikon, and Minolta / Konica Minolta / Sony bodies. These problems with older Sigma lenses are widely reported. Apparently Tamron and Tokina have had very few if any similar problems. It has been said (I don't know whether this is the correct explanation) that back in the day, unlike Tamron and Tokina, Sigma refused to pay the camera manufacturers to license the lensmount designs, and instead reverse-engineered them--and that sometimes the reverse-engineering missed certain subtle points or non-obvious specifications, causing these problems.</p>

<p>Would that stop be from buying a Sigma lens, new or used? No, I've bought both. Sigma makes some great lenses, often of types for which the camera manufacturers ofter nothing close. But the repeated occurrence of the Sigma compatibility issues, over many years (including recently with certain new Nikon bodies) means it's something to watch and consider.</p>

<p>By the way, one frequent failure mode of older Sigma lenses is that you can't use them on newer bodies except wide open or nearly so. If you tell the camera to stop down more than a fraction of a stop, or sometimes at all, the first attempt to take a picture locks up the camera. There are several (four?) versions of older Sigma 400mm f/5.6 lenses that are very cheap because they had these issues IIRC on newer bodies from both Canon and Minolta / Sony.</p>

 

[JDMvW]

<p>All, I'll say, since I know of no clear proof of any of the stories told, is that the answer is not so "plain and simple". If there is evidence for the "Sigma is all to blame" story, as opposed to unsupported assertions on the web, I'd love to see it.</p>

[justin_formentin]

<p>Thank you everyone for your responses. Dave Redmann, I think you hit the nail on the head. I was playing around some more and I found that I can actually take pictures in every setting (M, AV, TV, P, etc.) as long as I set the aperture on the camera to f/2.8. And I think that answers Ruben Leal's question as well. So there's nothing to do about it? This makes me so mad, I bought it from the only camera store in my area, and they were selling it as one piece, the camera body with the lens already attached and promised me everything would work. The next cheapest lens they sell is very expensive, so I can't just return it and get another one. Any suggestions for wide angle lenses $100 and under online anywhere? Thanks again everyone for all your help, I really appreciate it.</p>

[justin_formentin]

<p>Thank you everyone for your responses. Dave Redmann, I think you hit the nail on the head. I was playing around some more and I found that I can actually take pictures in every setting (M, AV, TV, P, etc.) as long as I set the aperture on the camera to f/2.8. And I think that answers Ruben Leal's question as well. So there's nothing to do about it? This makes me so mad, I bought it from the only camera store in my area, and they were selling it as one piece, the camera body with the lens already attached and promised me everything would work. The next cheapest lens they sell is very expensive, so I can't just return it and get another one. Any suggestions for wide angle lenses $100 and under online anywhere? Thanks again everyone for all your help, I really appreciate it.</p>

[ed_avis2]

<p>Yes, I have the same lens (in fact I've tested two samples of it). Some folk have found a way to 'reprogram' these lenses using a programmable electronic device such as a Teensy and a bit of soldering - sorry I don't have the link to hand and I haven't had the time to try it myself. (It does work on film bodies and very old digital bodies: 1D, 1Ds, D60, D30, and those made by Kodak.)</p>

<p>The question of whose 'fault' it is is futile, except to note you are certainly entitled to a refund from the camera shop if you want. A wide angle lens for under $100 is a tall order. You might, just, pick up a secondhand 40mm STM for that if you keep looking. Otherwise I suggest dropping the wide angle requirement and looking for a 50mm f/1.8. Increase the budget a little, and you might be able to get the now discontinued Canon 24mm or 28mm f/2.8 non-IS lenses. (There are manual focus wide angle lenses you can pick up for less than $100 including adaptor, but I can hardly recommend that as the first and only lens with your new camera.)</p>

[jamie_robertson2]

<blockquote>

<p>A wide angle lens for under $100 is a tall order.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>There are thousands of 28-80mm EOS lenses on eBay for next to nothing. </p>

[ed_avis2]

<p>Jamie R, you are right, I didn't consider zoom lenses. Indeed there are plenty of 18-55 EF-S lenses for within the budget too.</p>

[ruben leal]

Caution: the 18-55mm (and all the EF-S lenses) isn't compatible with EOS 135 format film cameras such as the Elan 7E.

[ed_avis2]

<p>My bad - I'm not used to the US model numbers so I didn't realize an Elan 7e was not digital. (I see now it is called an EOS 30 in other markets.) In that case I am surprised to hear that the Sigma lens doesn't work with it - I guess the very last generation of film cameras also has the incompatible protocol change that came in with the 10D. But yes, a 28-80 zoom might be the cheapest option.</p>

[dave_redmann]

<p>Ed, it's <em>slightly</em> worse than that--"the very last generation of film cameras" included the Elan 7NE; the 7E came before that (and there were also the corresponding 7N and 7, which lacked the eye control).</p>

<p>Sigma's compatibility woes go back at least to the introduction of the Minolta Maxxum 7000i in 1988, which did not work with some existing Sigma lenses (yes, auto-focus, working on the original Maxxum 7000); and have continued at least to the Nikon D5300 and Df (ca. November 2013).</p>