Problematic Gitzo tripod

[jonathan_bourla1]

<p>The following is about my experience with my now relatively elderly Gitzo tripod (originally posted on my blog www.jonathanbourla.com/blog ). I am interested if others have had similar experiences with Gitzo. I wrote to Gitzo for their comment, and although they acknowledged my communication, have not replied.</p>

<p>For those photographers who use a tripod with their camera, that tripod is an essential part of their photographic kit. For my fine art photography and large format view camera, keeping the camera absolutely still on a tripod is vital. I do recognise that not all photographic persuits suit the use of a tripod. For my own photography, my main camera is a tripod-only piece of equipment, so there’s no option of hand-holding the thing. But in general, with the long exposures I tend to use and the contemplative style of photography, this necessitates the use of a tripod, and I think a tripod is essential to achieving the best results the camera and lenses are capable of.<br>

When I started with my big camera, I bought a large and heavy Manfrotto model tripod. It was certainly stable but was really so big and heavy that I didn’t want to carry it very far. My wife and I were planning a trip to Australia, and so I investigated getting a lighter, smaller tripod. One thing I was keen on was a tripod without a centre column. I had read opinion saying these tripods were the most stable. Apart from some wooden tripods made by the American firm of Ries, the French company of Gitzo seemed to offer what I wanted in their Systematic line-up. Gitzo had the reputation as one of the best, if not the very best, of tripods available. I soon became the proud owner of a series three G345 aluminium Gitzo tripod (the move towards carbon fibre as a tripod material hadn’t really taken hold at that stage).<br>

For the first few years, the tripod behaved itself and I was pleased. This was, after all, an expensive, high quality piece of mechanical equipment that I expected to last indefinitely. But then it started misbehaving. It may have been around this time that I took a photograph of a water fountain in Devonport by removing my shoes, and climbing into the water and setting up my tripod with the lower leg sections in the water. Well, when I was home I washed, cleaned and dried the tripod. I had seen photographs in magazines of photographers with Gitzo tripod set up deep in water, so I didn’t expect any issues. But I found some time later that, with the camera set up on the tripod, one of the tripod’s lowest leg sections would collapse. Fortunately this collapse was a relatively slow process that I was able to grab camera and tripod, stopping the whole lot tumbling to the ground. As I found on subsequent photographic trips, I would have to be vigilant and not turn my back from the camera and tripod for more that a moment so I could catch the camera and tripod in those moments of collapse.<br>

I wrote to Gitzo, and received a reply recommending I replace the “leg bushes”, and put me in touch with the dealer stocking Gitzo products in my home city. I bought a bag of different size bushes, and installed the appropriate ones in my tripod. Feeling confident, I went on a photographic shoot, only to find the tripod misbehaved as before. Over time I sought out the advice of others via the internet, finding that others had had the same experience I had with my Gitzo tripod. Over time I tried different things I read about on the ineternet, such as sticking pieces of thin sticking tape to the bushes, but the results weren’t long lasting or effective.<br>

Then, when visiting a different city, I asked the advice of a Gitzo dealer there. The helpful young man swapped the plastic collars on the lowest leg sections, and then proceeded to demonstrate how strong the legs now were. What I didn’t realise until a minute or two later was that he had tightened the leg collars with almost superhuman force. It took a huge effort on my part to loosen these collars. I couldn’t believe it was necessary to apply so much force in tightening the tripod’s leg collars.<br>

Using the tripod revealed, with the collars tightened as much as I could, that the problem remained.<br>

I was really disillusioned. I was contemplating buying a new tripod, as I clearly couldn’t trust my Gitzo. Investigating the different tripods available, I found only two makes that filled the bill. One, not surprisingly, was Gitzo itself with their carbon fibre Systematic tripods. What became clear was that Gitzo had changed the design on their tripods. Did they change their tripod design due to deficiencies in the earlier models?<br>

The alternative was a tripod from American firm Really Right Stuff, which seem to be based on Gitzo’s designs with improvements. The model I would want was listed as not in stock.<br>

In terms of getting another Gitzo, I felt quite resentful, thinking my original Gitzo tripod shouldn’t have gone wrong. Despite not trusting my tripod, I kept putting off buying a replacement.<br>

Then I had a brainwave. I had always been under the impression that since the lowest leg sections, with their smaller diameter tubes, were only to be used once the larger diameter tube sections had been fully extended. So I would usually have the lowest sections only partially extended. But what if I did things the other way around? Fully extending the lowest leg sections, I found the tripod was finally stable and secure. After all these years.<br>

For the moment, I will stick with my old Gitzo tripod. Largely out of mistrust of the brand, I baulk at spending a lot of money on a new Gitzo replacement.</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

Gitzo tripods (the aluminium ones) can take almost everything you throw at them, but will require a little care now and again. The problem you had should be solved by doing what Gitzo themselves suggested: change the bushing. That is: if the collar doesn't tighten enough to keep the leg from sliding, there's something not right about the bushing. Could be that it wasn't in its proper position.<br>It is indeed possible to over-tighten the collars. Easiest to do with those wing nut equiped collars. That is because they are made such that, unless the bushing is missing, you can keep on tightening the thing until you run out of sufficient force or break things. (And that means you should always have been able to tighten that collar enough that it doesn't slip.)<br><br>Gitzo changed the design of their tripods, partly to make them even better (e.g. adding the versatility of their former top of the line tripods to other, 'lesser' series), partly because they and manfrotto tripods changed ownership and are now (for quite a while already) made by the same maker and they will not be wanting to continue having two ways of doing everything.<br><br>I have some pretty old Gitzo tripods, and i'm quite confident that i can make them last much longer than they already have. There's not much that ever needs replacing. Rings (between bolts and nuts and the thing they hold) are just about it. You can get those from Gitzo, or from any hardware store. And once in many years (depending also on how often you dip them in water) you should take them apart completely, clean them and relube everything that needs lubrication.<br>I wouldn't make do changing the order of extension. Thinnest section isn't the most stable section. And it should work any way you want it to. So perhaps you could take that leg apart again and fix what's wrong?

[jonathan_bourla1]

<p>Hi Q.G.!<br>

Thanks for your response, but suggesting I open the leg(s) and fix them isn't that helpful, since the whole point is I don't know what else to do. I have bought and installed replacement Gitzo bushes; thoroughly cleaned the tripod legs etc.; and had the tripod looked at by two Gitzo dealers. I'm thrilled I have a solution of sorts in fully extending the smallest diameter leg sections before adjusting the other leg sections. As you say this isn't an ideal solution, but it is a solution after much frustration. I'm certainly not going to buy more Gitzo bushes when the last lot were ineffective. I have read posts online from other Gitzo users who have had similar experiences and resorted to temporary fixes like sticking tape on the bushes. As I said, i just don't know what else I can do to return this tripod to the state of functioning it was in when I bought it. I have written to Gitzo but with no response. A response from Gitzo would be nice and certainly help improve my feeling about their product. Thanks, though, for your input and I'm just pleased your experience with older Gitzo tripods hasn't mirrored my own. </p>

[steve_m11]

<p>Hi Jonathan,<br>

My experience with Gitzo is limited to the newer GT2540LVL a levelling carbon fibre base with a Rationelle head and it is the largest head around to fit large format equipment.<br>

I'm afraid my experiences with the tripod are also less than satisfactory considering the amount paid for it. I've re-engineered the bolts that fit each leg to the stem, I've used a different lubricant on the head and base, I've lost numerous feet because the simply fall off ...<br>

They do release new models and I suspect they do not like to admit their errors publicly. The price goes up each time.<br>

Like you, I am getting by on a cobbled-together tripod that I fear will fail somehow. Let's hope a cheaper and more reliable replacement can be found soon for both of us. Perhaps the Chinese CF models might be a match someday soon.<br>

Cheers,<br>

Steve</p>

<p> </p>

[steve_rasmussen]

<p>I have the 320 Gitzo aluminum tripod and have used it a lot over the years, mostly for 6x7 work but also some 4x5. It seems that Gitzo has some engineering design problems. I don't like the fact that the legs will not extend outwards past a certain point by default due to the locks being built in. I have to purposely pull these locks out to extend the legs out from the default position. Using rivets to hold the legs to the upper support was a mistake. The leverage at that point, fatigues the rivets after much use and the legs loosen. I had to have one leg welded after my attempt to put in new rivets failed. The leg unlock grips would stick when the 320 was newer but this problem has gone away with wear. The legs will slip on occasion but I have not lost any shots because of it. For my heavier lenses/ cameras I use my Bogan 3036, it is proven... the Gitzo, not so much. Design problems prevent me from buying another Gitzo. </p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

I'm not here to defend Gitzo, though it might seem so, but <a href="http://www.manfrottospares.com/index.php?route=product/tripod&model_id=596">Gitzo doesn't use rivets to attach the legs of the 320 (or any other tripod, as far as i know) to the center/upper part, Steve. Nuts and bolts.</a><br>I think that what you think are rivets are vent holes.<br><br>The spread locks can be left in the extended position for as long as you like them to be, leaving the legs free to spread as far as you want.<br>The legs locks are a bit problematic, because it's too easy to tighten them too much, and you'll need to be very strong to release them again. I never had any experience of slipping legs myself, precisely because it is so very easy to tighten them really good. (Same with other Gitzo parts, such as heads: they sooner seize and lock up than go loose.)<br><br>I'm not that familiar with what being made by the people who also make Manfrotto tripods has changed to Gitzo build and design quality. But the older stuff is built to last forever. And going by how my Gitzos do over the decades i use them, i'm confident they will. They take all sorts of abuse and remain rock solid. They do need some cleaning and lubrication now and again, depending on how much you abuse them.<br>They are not perfect. The bushing inside the legs may crack. The aluminium knob on the spread locks will get loose and even come off. The rings between nuts and bolts and fixed parts will wear and need replacing. The hard rubber feet will wear too. And the paint will chip. But for the rest, not much to complain about.

[jerry_bodine]

<p>I have two older model aluminum Gitzos from the late 60s/early 70s for my Sinar monorails from 4x5 to 8x10. One has non-winged locks, the other has the wings. The only problem I've had is with deterioration of the rubber grippers on the leg locks of the non-winged type, and these were fixed by removing the dried-up rubber and replacing with wraps of friction tape from the local hardware store; the repairs have held up for many years. I'm very careful about applying too much tightening force.</p>

[steve_rasmussen]

<p>Those vent holes you speak of QG would be a good idea since the legs' motion would be slowed when extending or compressing without them. In fact the leg motion is constrained, as no air is felt entering or leaving these so called vent holes with leg compression or extension. They appear to be rivets and I still don't like the design. </p>