Not enough threads on the Df

[nikofile]

<p>I guess it could happen. But I gotta believe I would know. We will see. The biggest problem I have always had with the selection pad was accidentally locking focus point, and it does not appear this Df will be any different.</p>

<p>I have snapped some photos with my Voightlander, and I am impressed, even at f2. I also ran a few through with the 50mm 1.4G to checkout AF All good.</p>

<p>Now, for my very first complaint. I'm sure the strap lugs are located in a way to prevent nose-dive, but I can't deal with it. That area on the right has be clear for a lot of work. Don't know what I will do. Maybe a wrist strap on the left side.</p>

<p>Love the manual controls, especially using the Voightlander. The ISO change is my biggest slowdown, but it is too easy, so I know that will come with time. I am getting my index on the rounded corner of the body rather than the wheel. But that part feels really good, and I will wind up rubbing off the finish if I don't get my head straight. For the rest, the camera feels great. This is the way I want to take pictures. The grip is excellent with prime lenses, and that's pretty much all I need. And the images.....you just have to see what this sensor does. Maybe we should call it "velvet".....maybe Velvia....yeah....wait, somebody already did that.</p>

[marc_ravignat]

<p>I have had my Df for more than five months and never did I have problems with the the metering selector or any other dials changing unintentially. I am not a fan of the front sub command dial. I find it just a bit too stiff. Because of this, I have changed for G lenses the aperture selection to the main command dial on the back. Different people hold cameras differently and what are problems to some are not to other's. This is why this camera, and especially this camera, needs to be used before passing judgement. It's dual interface makes it extremely versatile. This camera will never be everyone's cup of tea (wine), but for me it's the very best digital slr on the market today, especially if you enjoy using manual lenses. I would fall into Bjorn Rosslett camp on this one. </p>

[marc_ravignat]

<p>The strap lugs are really not a problem. You need to place the neck strap between your index and middle finger thus reaching the shutter button (just like older slr cameras). You get use to it very quickly. As for the quality of the images, velvetry and smooth I would agree, just terrific. I am using older non ai lenses on this camera and the sensor is very forgiving with these old lenses. </p>

[nikofile]

<p>Hey, Marc, I can't like having that strap between there, and it kind gets in the way of using the front dial. I do like that the front dial is a bit stiff, but maybe that isn't to everyone's liking.</p>

<p>I went to our local market and got photos of the entrance but metering the sky, just to see how well I could do pulling up shadows. It's not D800E-like, but neither is anything else. Still the shadows hold up really well.</p>

<p>Maybe a person needs to have been using cameras from the old days to get the feeling this camera gives me. The size seems just right, and the grip is fantastic. That leatherette covering provides a nice feel.</p>

<p>I have just mounted the piece d'resistance, a Nikon 28-70mm f3.5-4.5D. I really like this little lens, and I believe with this camera the lens can actually be used indoors. I believe Nikon forgot to tell the Df what noise is. Wow, those guys with their D4s have been holding out.</p>

[nikofile]

<p>You can just get stupid with these ISOs. I have lusted long for a D3s, but I will lust no more. That beast might still be a tad better, but it can't be much.</p>

<p>I think those people at Cosina must have had a very early prototype of the Df because I would swear the 40mm Ultron is made for this camera. The little lens is very good wide open, and the size is perfect. I know I can leave the house with just that lens and have a great time.</p>

<p>Oh, the 28-70mm at ISO 11400....that can't be....yeah, 11400, gives you a pretty good jpeg right from the camera. Unreal.</p>

[john_tran14]

<p>Here are my thoughts as someone who has owned most of the famous Nikon film SLRs except the Nikon F6 and FM3A. (I dont afford to get the Df now).</p>

<p>If I need a versatile camera, then this is not one for me.</p>

<p>If I need a simple, easy and fun to handle camera, then I am not satisfied with the Df either because it is still too complicated and not very convenient. I want only two dials on the camera, one for the ISO and the other for the shutter speed (aperture should be on the lens). That's for simplicity. For convenience, I prefer LCD windows to view the settings better than the painted numbers on the dials which are often not good enough to see.</p>

[nikofile]

<blockquote>

<p>Here are my thoughts as someone who has owned most of the famous Nikon film SLRs except the Nikon F6 and FM3A. (I dont afford to get the Df now).<br>

If I need a versatile camera, then this is not one for me.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>John, you say that, but I tell you now, this camera makes it as fun as it used to be before we got all sophisticated. And if you want to shoot simple, the only dials you use are, you guessed it, shutter speed and ISO. You can use the aperture ring on your lens if you have it and if you want to. You might occasionally use the metering mode switch, but you gotta want that. The rest of it is for shooting the modern way. You have release mode, and you have to have that, unless you want to set that in a menu, as you have to do on some so-called retro cameras. You have a P-A-S-M dial, and you have to have that. You have AF-ON and AE lock, and you have to have that for ordinary DSLR style shooting. Just think of it like a drivers-ed car with controls on both sides. You can stick to the three basics, stick to menus and wheels, or use a combination. And guess what, you can use LCD menus to change settings.</p>

<p>I had a Fuji X-E2 briefly. I have owned Olympus and Sony, and I tried Nikon 1. They should not be mentioned within the same zip-code as this Df. Diamonds to dog droppings, and the Df is the diamond.</p>

<p>Hey, Marc, I tried a Nikon NS-1 strap on it (I have a bunch of those), and it's okay. I got comfortable with it after a short time. But I can't use my Op/tech with the clippies.</p>

[donbright]

<p>Roy,<br>

Is there a struggle with the strap in the taught position? Or are you identifying the issue with the camera raised to your eye with the strap relaxed?</p>

[nikofile]

<blockquote>

<p>Is there a struggle with the strap in the taught position? Or are you identifying the issue with the camera raised to your eye with the strap relaxed?</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /> Don, it was the act of operating the shutter and aperture while holding the camera to my eye. It simply requires the standard DSLR strap which is narrow and soft where it attaches. I have an Op/Tech that is very comfortable for larger cameras, but the plastic attaching clip is too large and unyielding. I like that strap, but the Df is smallish and not so heavy, so the NS-1 is fine. I have an Op/Tech with the standard SLR attachment that I use on a lens pouch, and I might swap that out for the NS-1. But I am comfortable with it right now, and mostly I want to shoot. It has been storming here, but I am up early, and I might go down to old town for breakfast. Might be some photo ops down there in early morning darkness.</p>

[nikofile]

<p>We all see through different eyes with different perspectives, so you can never really take for granted product reviews. I am old. I drove a Chevy Bel Aire and Pontiac GTO when they were the cheap alternatives. But I'm not oblivious to technology. I have been doing electrical controls design and instrument design for a very long time. I am a programmer, and I have written with everything from assembly language to C to ladder logic. I have worked in Africa, Asia, Australia, and South America. Our family's first camera was a square, black Kodak with one shutter speed and aperture. It used 120 film, B&W at the time, and guess what - my mom gave me that thing. My siblings can have anything they want to remember her by, but this old Kodak is mine. Light leaks in like crazy, but it still operates, and if there is enough sunshine you can take a recognizable picture with it.</p>

<p>So that's me. I know plenty of young people who would not recognize an old phone with rotary dial, not to mention party lines. They have grown up with cell phones and television, and if I played a tape of a Jack Benny radio program or The Shadow they would not have a clue. Cameras? They would think a D70 is an antique.</p>

<p>So I can understand if we don't share the same excitement about the Df. I went downtown while it was still dark, and I took photos until the street sweeper truck made me nervous. I didn't take many because I savored it. I haven't mastered the ISO wheel, but I am getting there. The focus indicator on my camera seems spot on with the lenses I have used, so that part is a done deal. It was nice with the 40mm Ultron. I had to fiddle with the ISO to get the under-exposure exactly where I wanted it, but I took my time. I shot with a comfortable 1/60 shutter at f4.5. At ISO 6400 it is like shooting in daylight. This sensor is incredible. I'm not sure it can deliver shadow detail the way a D800E can. It probably cannot. But it is no slouch.</p>

<p>I had studied the manual before I got the camera, and I read a lot of what is out here on the web. I knew I would like this Df, but I did not realize how much I would like it. I left it on the kitchen counter earlier, walked back in there in the dark, and I just grabbed it. My thumb was on the lens cap and my fingers wrapped over the top on the lcd screen. No worries. I'm not sure I could hurt this camera. It is like a high-tech tank, feather-light and hard. It's not that F3 kind of tank. It's a new kind of tank. And it is a real pleasure to shoot. All the controls are marvelous, the sensor is lights-out, the weight and size are ideal. This should be a street shooter's delight.</p>

<p>People often accuse the elderly of being set in their ways. It occurs to me that you don't have to be elderly to be set in your ways. For a younger person, you cannot go into this with memories of old film cameras. Your mind-set is DSLR with all the wheels and menus and speed. You are not going to wax nostalgic when you pick up a Df. But the more inquisitive of you are going to see all kinds of possibilities, and you are going to appreciate the precision in its construction. This is the Nikon craftsmanship I remember, but refreshed. The battery door that some call flimsy, has a very precise fit, although I don't know how easy it might be to break that little plastic latch, so don't act like a gorilla when you handle it. Morons and careless people can break anything. I know because I have done it....a number of times. Not sure which category that puts me in. But if I break this one I am going to send it to Nikon the fastest way possible and get it fixed.</p>

<p>So I'm pretty much done with my early impressions. I had such anticipation for the Df, and it has delivered. I really like this thing. I don't know if you would. I don't know what you like to shoot, or what use you have for the images. For me it is more about taking the picture, and enjoying the process. But low-light done right has to be attractive to everyone.</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>Sheun I think your review is very accurate by far. Many other reviewers said things down right WRONG!</p>

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>Shun I think your review is very accurate by far. Many other reviewers said things down right WRONG!</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks. It is no secret that I am not a fan of the Df or the retro style, but I am glad that at least one Df owner feels that I am not very biased one way or another. I did use the Df quite a bit to gain actual experience.</p>

<p>When I had the Df, I never put the strap on, as I usually don't on review cameras because I need to capture a lot of images of the cameras themselves for the review, and the strap gets in the way. I am a bit surprised that I have read a lot of complaints on the location of the Df's strap lugs. If you look at the FE, its strap lugs are in essentially identical locations. The FE and FE2 were my main cameras for over a decade around the 1980's, and I never felt that was an issue.</p><div></div>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>The strap lug is an issue with the Df. Without the strap attached I can use the front wheel just fine but with it it's difficult to use the index finger on this wheel. Using the middle finger is OK but doesn't feel good. Just like I don't use my left foot for the brake and right foot for the accelarator pedal only I don't like the using the middle finger for this wheel. But I only need this wheel some of the time.<br>

I used the FM and FE and there is no problem because they don't have such wheel. <br>

One thing I really mind but I have not heard any one complain about this. When using the aperture ring to adjust the aperture the display in the viewfinder or on top only display in full stop increment. I am sure it's not difficult to display in 1/2 stop as the AI coupling is accurate enough for this. (it was the stop down level that wasn't linear with AI lens not the AI coupling).</p>

[nikofile]

<blockquote>

<p>I am a bit surprised that I have read a lot of complaints on the location of the Df's strap lugs. If you look at the FE, its strap lugs are in essentially identical locations. The FE and FE2 were my main cameras for over a decade around the 1980's, and I never felt that was a issue.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

The location of the lugs is great for preventing nose-dive, which occurs with many cameras regardless of lens size. But the FE did not have a front command dial, and that is the fly in the ointment. However, with a standard strap the issue goes away rather quickly.</p>

[constance_cook]

<p>You are wonderful Roy! You say much of what I think and feel. I appreciate your in-depth, crossover back ground as well.<br>

I can and have taken very fast photos on the fly and was exhilarated by it but I much prefer going for a careful precision, getting it just right in the camera, sweeping the frame before I press the shutter. I don't want to 'fix' it later beyond sharpening a bit. And converting it to B&W if I didn't originally take it that way. It fits the subjects I prefer. I like to do close careful work when I can. I don't care at all about video. Another thing I need to think about, at least for a while, is weight. I can't carry the equivalent of my F5, F6 or my hefty dSLRs all day. I want to get back there but now, the Df would also solve that problem. I have a strap on my FM3a but I can't find a brand on it. I had the same strap on the FM3a I just discovered was stolen. After my visitors leave, I will take it off to see if I can find it that way. It might solve your strap problem.</p>

<p>Nikon knows that Roy and I are out there as are many others. The Japanese are holding tight to their money right now because of the new sales tax so that might account for some slow sales.. It is hurting most businesses. And they still have that horror of the tsunami. They aren't buying extraneous items right now and that isn't helping Nikon (or any camera company).</p>

<p>If you will just provide me with coordinates to your house and leave the Df where I can pick it up without doing any damage to your doors or windows, I'll be past to pick it up. Your description of the controls sounds so suitable for me now I really want one.</p>

<p>An interesting thing I see in Asakusa and Shinobazu is younger people with film cameras. I've seen them other places but I live near there when I'm in Tokyo so that's my main observation point.</p>

<p>Conni</p>

[nikofile]

<blockquote>

<p>An interesting thing I see in Asakusa and Shinobazu is younger people with film cameras. I've seen them other places but I live near there when I'm in Tokyo so that's my main observation point.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

That must look like the early 60s all over again. I remember everyone in Yokohama seemed to have a camera strapped on, and it was still a fairly poor country at the time. A memory burned in my mind is a "slicky boy" in Seoul Korea stealing a Petri camera from me that I had just bought. Boy that guy was fast, and he had guts. I was young, big and strong, a leg infantryman, but he didn't care. He wanted that camera. Petri, ah now there's a memory. No worries, I picked up a Yashica when I got out of the army, and I liked that better than the Petri anyway.</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>Roy could you post a picture of your Df with the 40mm lens? I imagine that I wouldn't like that combo.</p>

[donbright]

<p>The Df is slightly bigger than the FM3a, and the Voightlander 40mm Ultron is a fine performer, whatever camera its on. The objective when developing the Ultron was done because of its size; that's the point.</p><div></div>

[nikofile]

<p>You can see it here, BeBu. </p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[nikofile]

<p>Shun, have you noticed anything different about the way the Df meters? Using matrix it seems to me it is exposing in favor of preserving highlights, more so than my D800E. Of course, it seems to me you can rescue totally blown highlights with the D800E sometimes, and maybe the Df can't. But it sure seems to be protecting the bright stuff. Nothing scientific. Just an impression I get.</p>

<p>Don, that FM3a is killer. What a beauty.</p>

[marc_ravignat]

<p>Roy, I am glad that you are enjoying the Df. This camera has everything that I could ask for. It has a dual interface that can be used like the cameras that I used in the 70's and can function like a modern dslr with the command dials as well. What more can you ask for? It doesn't have the large handle that my other dsrl's have but I am use to using older manual cameras. As for the strap lug; it is positioned exactly where it is on older slr's. The only difference is the rotating front sub command dial. As I mentioned previously, you can squeeze the strap between you middle and index finger, as you would have done with older camera. It works fine. I am using a Barton braided leather strap on mine and this strap is really confortable and looks really nice on the DF. Steve Huff has this strap on his Df in his review.<br>

As for using the iso dial, there many ways of doing this. I have my front fn button programmed to change, by pressing the button and rotating the command dial, the camera from auto iso to manual iso. On auto iso my in menu camera setting is at a maximum of iso 6400. The starting iso I have set to iso 100 with the manual dial on top of the camera. The camera will expose using the dialed in iso 100 setting first, and then work it's way up to the maximum in menu auto iso. Now, if I want to go beyond iso 6400, I just rotate the top iso dial to anything above that. And, if I want to turn off auto-iso I can do so with the fn button and use the top iso dial like you have been doing. <br>

You will read on the internet that many are setting the in menu auto iso to 200 (the minimum), and then setting the maximum iso with the top dial. This works as well but creates one problem. The camera will start with for example iso 6400 on the top dial, expose with that setting, and then work it's way down to the camera's base iso. I don't want my camera to work it's way down but want it to use the minimum iso first and work it's way up from this base iso as any camera in auto iso should do. <br>

Hope this helps. <br>

P.S. The high iso files from this camera are just incredible and this is why I recommend that you use auto-iso withing limitations of course. If you want me to explain how I have been using non-ai lenses on the DF, I will gladly do so. Enjoy!</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>Thanks Roy! Yeah the Voightlander is small for the Df. So I would only use it if it performs better than a Nikkor but otherwise I wouldn't want to use it. </p>

[nikofile]

<p>Thanks, Marc. I have a pretty good grip on auto-ISO, but the way I use it simplifies the process. I shoot Manual almost exclusively, so it is pretty easy to control auto-ISO. But that is really for a more appropriate camera. The Df is for shooting pleasure where I can shoot completely manual - focus, ISO, shutter, aperture. I guess the D800E is safe for now.</p>

<p>Hey, BeBu, that Voightlander is a perfect size. Handling is great. An 85mm is a bit large on this camera. My 24mm 2.8D is just right, and the 50mm is pretty good. My 28-70 zoom is just perfect. However, my grandson has a graduation this week, and the 70-200 has to be there. Not sure which camera I will take. I am going to try that lens with the Df tomorrow, but I don't expect a good fit. The Df is a lot quieter than the E model, and that would be nice. And for indoor shooting the Df is better.</p>

[donbright]

<p>Roy,<br>

Your approach to the welcoming of your new camera is refreshing. Seems anymore, the bad review is the good review. Certainly I'm not interested in anyone telling me what I want to hear, and your assessment of the Df fits to its purpose, and reason. Earlier here in this thread I posted a link for viewers here to see actual pictures from the Df. I refer to this link occasionally, and what I'm seeing are very clean, rich images presented in all kinds of genres, sports, still life, portraiture, Weddings, landscape. So I wonder how any review could pan the Df in being limited in its ability, but we've read these reviews, and interesting how well readers have moved on to see the Df for what it really is. Could be the Df had a bad start because of the bad threads on the D-600 oil spot issue, because many were slamming Nikon beyond the 600s issue, and I sense the Df got caught up in some of that bad wind.</p>

[nikofile]

<p>Don,<br>

I'm not sure what is happening to the hobby of photography. It is as if people reviewing photo gear are trying to be the first with startling news, or they are trying to referee a war of opinion. I see the Df as a unique product, a camera that defies comparisons. When I read remarks like, "The D610 is the same camera at a lower price...", I have to say that before I got this Df in my hands, a remark like that seemed worthy of consideration. After two days I am wondering why you would mention a D610 in the same paragraph as a Df, or even in the same zip code. I have a D600. I hope people will believe me when I say, put that camera out of your mind when considering the Df. I'm sure there are a few shared parts. That has been true from the beginning of photo gear. But so long as those parts are reliable and effective, they take nothing away from the camera.</p>

<p>I am sitting here with my D800E on the desk. It is an amazing camera. Some people just have to take a contrarian view of everything. But how anyone can have negative feelings about a camera as amazing as this one, that is beyond me. Don't tell me how it should have been made differently, or how it should have cost more or less. Just take it on its own merits, and it certainly has merits.</p>

<p>My Df is out in the kitchen because I am going to take it out before dawn to play. It is not a D800E, and it isn't supposed to be. In fact, it isn't like anything else I have seen in years. It provides so many unique opportunities for enjoying this hobby I am at a loss to point out a drawback. But anyone who approaches this camera must take it on its own merits. Don't look for what it isn't. Don't wonder why you can't use exactly the same habits as you have with other cameras to get the same results. It is not like other cameras. The way I am and the way I will stay is to approach this camera for what it is. Let me see how this thingie works, and let me find interesting ways to use it. Certainly the end result is an image from a D4 sensor, but if that's all you need and your whole point is just getting there, photography is no longer a hobby for you.</p>

<p>This Df is a camera that can really make your juices flow if you let it take you there. Don't think about your other camera or someone else's camera. Look at the dials and think about what you want to do. Nikon has given us something amazing here, and you know that anything this different is going to get slammed on the internet. I'm sure Nikon knew it as well. The reviewers absolutely must compartmentalize the camera, shove it into a slot, and tell you all the reasons why it doesn't fit in their little slot exactly the way it should. But the Df has a chance. If it can survive the gauntlet and get into the hands of enough people, those people who pursue this hobby are going to get the real story.</p>

<p>I think Nikon could have used a better approach in presenting the Df. I think they should have given me one and followed me into the backyard. Roll the tape when this little stray cat comes running to me for a treat. Film me fiddling with the Df to get everything the way I want it while the little cat rubs against me, rubs against the camera and rubs against everything else, anticipating the treat for him that he knows is in my pocket. Watch me give it to him, then get the camera ready, waiting for him to look up with that expression of, "Is that all you had for me?" The shutter fires really softly, and I got him. So of course I have another treat in my pocket.</p>

<p>I have not, after two years, lost the sense of amazement when I look at images from my D800E. It is marvelous. But you get to that picture the same way you did with a D700 or a D300 or any other modern DSLR. The Df is different. I don't think the feeling is going to wear off either. I just don't see how Nikon can follow up this camera in a couple of years, or even a decade. It isn't about the sensor or the shutter or the metering system. And if someone is going to insist that the Df allow them to shoot the way they did with a D700 they should forget about it and buy something else.</p>