duncan_mcmorrin2 Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Looks like Canon has something brewing. www.dpreview.com has an article saying Canon Canada spilt the beans, confirming that the D60 has been discontinued...... Best, Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan_dowling Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Well, they have been in very short supply for quite a while. Now we know there are no more coming. Canon probably made a whole bunch of them, then started work on their new camera. Aparrantly they ran out before they thought they would and no new D60's will be built. Instead Canon must be working on their new DSLR. Maybe they're readying a huge supply of them to meet the demand once it's released. As for what that new DSLR will be and when it will appear, my guess is as good as anyone's. Most people think it will be announced at the next big photography show, PMA. Most people think it will have improved specs. Most expect a denser sensor or perhaps a physically larger sensor. Some expect improved auto focus. They won't make it a $2000 1Ds. That would be foolish of them. I'm just hoping it won't be more expensive than the D60 was, since that's the max price point I'm interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan_mcmorrin2 Posted January 7, 2003 Author Share Posted January 7, 2003 Brendan,wouldn't suprise me to see a full frame DSLR in the D60 packet for around the same price....That'd put the cat among the pigeons..:-) Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan_dowling Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 A full frame sensor at that price point would suprise me very much. Nikon has basically spilled their beans and told everyone that they will be continuing with APS sized sensors for the time being (the DX lens series announcement). Fuji and Kodak are aparrantly working on an interchangable lens and sensor size standard for digital SLR's (the Four Thirds announcement). Canon is basically the unknown factor now. Basically, if the sensor density and sensitivity improve, the sensors don't need to be the size of 35mm film or larger to be effective. With film, the grain size and sensitivity were basically fixed, so the only way to improve quality was by increasing the image size by using larger film formats. There is a lot of room for improvement in current digital sensor technology. To make a larger sensor is exponentially more expensive than to make a smaller sensor. The reason for this is that they are made on silicon wafers just like microchips. Suppose a wafer is 8 inches round. 100 APS size sensors will fit on it. Only 30 35mm size sensors will fit. Suppose you have 20 randomly scattered impurities on that wafer. Those will kill a smaller percentage of the sensors on the APS wafer than they would on the 35mm wafer (at most it would kill 20 sensors on either wafer). The percentage of usable sensors is called yield. The cost per wafer is the same. Anyway, people shouldn't get as hung up on this stuff as they do. Using a 35mm lens on a sensor that isn't full frame is wasteful, just as using a medium format camera lens on a 35mm camera is wasteful, or putting a roll film back on a 4x5 camera is wasteful (optically speaking). Using a full frame sensor would allow you to get the most out of your lens, but using a better sensor with a cheaper lens might actually be better overall. Anyway, it's going to be an interesting couple of months (and the next few years as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Manufacturing cost has nothing to do with sales price. In general that is. The price is predetermined before production by asking people how much they would be willing to pay for an item. Then they calculate the number of items probably sold, manufacturing costs and if it's profitable, they start production. Usually there is a lot of air in the price, which keeps the research going. Chip yield? That's nothing. You can tell it by looking at the relative prices of Canon's and Kodak's full-frame sensors. Nikon's commitment to APS-size sensors with the DX line is for the low end of their line. The lenses will be small, cheap and have small maximum apertures; ie. they're aimed for the holiday snapper. It would be stupid to ignore the potential for medium-format quality rivaling full-frame sensors, and they aren't that stupid. Nikon is certainly interested in competing with Canon for the extinction of medium format photography. Even today, the 6 Mpix chips show the limitations of lenses in resolution, and to increase quality from the current so-so level, a larger frame is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham_wilkins Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I'd be very surprised if Nikon don't launch a full frame digital SLR this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umd Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 - If it were a freemarket competition it would be logical to expect Nikon to introduce a full framer. But it is the Japanese monopoly, maximising profit in more efficient and creative ways (than competing). Like artificially obseleting gear, delibreately omitting essential features and later adding them in redundant new versions. Enlightened? - Yes, sure. What about Kodak then? - Umm, hmm, err, I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg_na Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Don't forget that maximizing profits is not a sin, but a duty! No companies can survive otherwise. As to the Japanese monopoly, it is simply a result of their superior manufacturing capabilities rather than some unfair anti-competition practices. If it wasn't for the Japanese keen technical abilities, little progress would have been made in the camera industry. Just look at the Leica products! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 "If it wasn't for the Japanese keen technical abilities, little progress would have been made in the camera industry. Just look at the Leica products!"<p>Spurious logic. Leica's recent lack of innovation is largely shaped by its exclusion from market niches that favored innovation. Had the Japanese been less dominant, Leica would have greatly increased incentive to innovate.<p>But I sympathize. it is fun to trash Leica's artificial pomposity and contrast its uppity attitude with its withered market share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudymerz Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I know why I have a Nikon gear.;-) I am happy since two years with my D1. styx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umd Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 <i>Don't forget that maximizing profits is not a sin..</i><br><br> Are you working for Microsoft Berg? ;-)<br><br> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakim_peled1 Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I wonder, why do you ask this in a Nikon forum ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 This topic is discussed in a Nikon Forum because the D100 is selling so well that Canon is getting out from the consumer-grade DSLR sector. That is why the D60 is being discountinued with no replacement. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan_mcmorrin2 Posted January 9, 2003 Author Share Posted January 9, 2003 Yakim, I wonder why there's always someone who has to question the person posing every ruddy question? It was posted here because I, as Nikon D1x user, am interested in what Canon is doing, because Canon is also a large producer of DSLRs, with many similar products to Nikon....and as you see, there are other people interested too...so if it's OK with you....:-) Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 "Don't forget that maximizing profits is not a sin."<p> That depends on what steps were taken in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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