Nikon Introduces D810, $3299.95

[pics]

<p><strong>"The real significance to me is that, by collapsing two models into one, they have removed the option to buy one below $3,000, at least at list"</strong></p>

<p>This is the only major downside I see to the camera as well. Knowing that they were going to remove the option of two different versions of the D800 I was hoping the cost was going to err on the side of the standard (sub 3K) version. Looks like this isn't the case (not surprisingly I suppose.) If Nikon is going to continue to add $200-400 to the cost of their pro-body FX cameras every two years it is going to be increasingly cost prohibitive for many people. It would be nice if they would scrap the junky consumer body layout of the D610 and put it in a D800 body with the 24MP D610 sensor and price it in the low to mid $2000 range. This would provide a good option for those waiting for a D400 (high end DX is dead and most have moved on to full frame anyway.)</p>

[donbright]

<p>I too have had my sights set on the Df, but for $600 more? Kind of a no brainer, and there's nothing I've heard yet discouraging about the D810. </p>

[jose_angel]

<p>Well, a "D800 series" camera and the Df are two <strong>very different</strong> beasts... is like debating between a 4x4 and a convertible... <em>What do I need? An Audi Q7 or a Porsche Boxster... ?</em><br />If we apply our favorite axiom, -"<em>if you don`t know if you need it... "-, </em>probably neither of them; otherwise, this kind of debates are perfectly understandable! :)</p>

[CvhKaar]

<p>Good, just saw a pricedrop for the D800 over here already :-)<br>

And that one is still supported by the current Capture-NX2 too :-)</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Recall that just over two years ago, there was major shortage for the D800 and D800E. Some stores were inflating D800 prices to $3500 or even higher, and there were scalpers flipping them for profit: http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00aC7r</p>

<p>I ordered my D800E from my local store in mid April, 2012 and waited almost two full months before I finally got mine.</p>

<p>As I said back then, Nikon clearly priced the D800 too slow @ $3000. The Canon 5D Mark III was more like $3500 at that time. While that is not the case for many other models, I think Nikon is doing it right to raise the D810 to $3300, in line with the D800E.</p>

<p>We also learned that the D800 and D800E are 99% the exact same camera, and moire is essentially a complete non-issue on the D800E. You can occasionally get moire on the D800 as well; the D800E is hardly worse. Removing the anti-alias filter is now standard on all Nikon DSLRs.</p>

[CvhKaar]

<p>Totally agree Shun, thats why i think that <em><strong>now</strong></em> may be the best time to switch partly to full frame ( i do have several good quality FX lenses.already.), since this afternoon i found new D800 's priced within 4300 EURo from D610 i.e.<br>

D610 at EUR 1649,- <br>

D800 at EUR 2029<br>

and future price for D810 starting at EUR 3229, ---</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>The D4s, Df and D610 still have AA filters.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Sorry, I was thinking about the high-pixel density DSLRs such as the D5300, D7100. The all have no anti-aliasing filter any more so that you can get a tiny bit more sharpness, but again, the difference is tiny.</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>So, a possibly interesting snippet: I was just talking to my default UK dealer to see what their part-exchange might be on my D800e - not that I'm expecting to jump to the D810 until the price drops a bit, but there's no harm in bracing myself. I don't have that number from them, but I asked them why the D800e had disappeared from their web site. They said "Nikon UK have discontinued the D800e and have no stock". They're still stocking the base D800, however. (Going rate is currently about £700 less than the D810 pre-order price.) Note that the D800e is still very much listed on Nikon UK's web site, so this may have been advance information.<br />

<br />

I hope Nikon don't have manufacturing issues with the D810. New shutter mechanism, what could go wrong. :-)<br />

<br />

(They also don't have means to contact anyone who went to a press event, so my attempts to find out whether live view was less broken and the list of things you can map to the programmable buttons didn't get me anywhere.)</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>By the way... I appreciate that I'm comparing it to the "<i>how</i> long?" Df threads, which were partly my fault, and that the D810 is - at least at first glance - a relatively minor update over the D800... and also that the specific new features of the D810 may matter more to me than the average prospective customer, and that there'll be more to say when people do tests... but...<br />

<br />

Is it me, or is this thread a bit quiet for a new flagship (consumer) camera release? Is the internet saying "meh"?</p>

[alan_bessler_sr]

<p>Will the photos that D810 makes be any better than the D800/800E,I think not.</p>

[nikofile]

<p>I would not give up a perfectly good D800E for a D810. It appears that most of the upgrade concerns video, and I think the best upgrade for that is to remove it, ala the Df.</p>

<p>Still, it appears to be a terrific camera, and I'm sure a lot of people will find it a great experience.</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Alan: Depends, although of course we don't know that yet. I'm not sure how much ISO64 will help, given that the D800 already has such a wide dynamic range at minimum ISO and we're limited by a 14-bit DAC (or at least, 14-bit NEF). At the high end, I'd have been dismissive of any improvements were it not for the performance of the A7s, which might mean that Sony have learnt a trick. I actually wouldn't mind an extra stop of performance - to Df levels - at high ISO if I could get it.<br />

<br />

I think the bigger changes are to the handling, though. Making getting the shot easier is probably more important than trying to improve absolute image quality, especially since the D800E sensor is so good anyway. Getting rid of vibration with the new shutter, making the AF more reliable (if it works, but the D4s is supposed to be very good), split screen live view making tilt/shift an option (I hope), highlight priority... it's all good stuff. No one feature is amazing, but they do add up.<br />

<br />

There's a brochure <a href="http://www.europe-nikon.com/tmp/EU/2419865273/3760176746/2327365364/27184057/1391280926/2780083465/688362553/2027325250/4291728192/4102963099.pdf">here</a>, if anyone's interested. A snippet that I don't think we've mentioned before is that 1.2x crop mode (24MP) now hits 6fps, I believe without the grip, which removes a little D610 envy (as would a quieter shutter).</p>

 

<blockquote>I would not give up a perfectly good D800E for a D810. It appears that most of the upgrade concerns video, and I think the best upgrade for that is to remove it, ala the Df.</blockquote>

 

<p>I suspect everyone will find their own "most important upgrade" (I'm certainly not expecting most other people to care about the split live view as much as I do). While better video is welcome on the rare occasion I need it, I'm far more grateful that the D800 has a video button because I can map it to ISO than for actual video capabilities. I'm expecting to have been wanting more of these changes than most - as you say, I doubt it's worth most people upgrading (and I may be relying on that for my D800e trade-in price). But I'll certainly be awaiting reviews to see how much of a difference it actually makes.</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<blockquote>

<p>Will the photos that D810 makes be any better than the D800/800E,I think not.<br>

</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well, apparently it will take 300 <em><strong>more </strong></em>shots per battery charge. So, I guess a captured image is better than a missed shot!<br>

<br>

The PDF link by Jose sums up the differences nicely...many of those features will make getting a good shot easier.<br>

<br>

In shot to shot comparison, maybe not so much, perhaps +1/3 EV better noise control? It's only a minor upgrade after-all.</p>

<blockquote>

 

</blockquote>

 

[panayotis_papadopoulos]

<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDrUlZYvgdE#t=209" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDrUlZYvgdE#t=209</a><br>

You can watch a video comparison on the above link between Nikon D810 and Canon 5D mark III. Unfortunately different lenses were used but it gives you an idea...</p>

[DB_Gallery]

I sure hope it is a lot quieter than my D800....

 

It might be the worst sounding 35mm camera I have ever used, it sure is the

loudest. I have seriously been contemplating getting rid of it in favor for a 610. Why they put such a crap mirror in the

D800 is beyond any logic and the darn thing blew during a shoot last year, the AF is still not right, the Df I am renting just

smokes it.

 

Maybe they actually put a decent mirror in the 810, that alone would be worth the upgrade, I could care less about much

else.

[alan_bessler_sr]

<p>Hey Mike why spend $500 to get a few extra shots per battery charge over the D800 I guaranty no one can tell the difference in which camera took which photo!</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Alan: I'm very impressed that you have such knowledge of the sensor performance before the rest of us... (I honestly don't know whether I'm expecting a relatively minor change, as with the D4/D4s, or something bigger.)</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>A bit more extra info from Thom Hogan, who's been reading Japanese specs: the small raw images are just under 28MB, and the compressed raw (12-bit) images are about 29MB - although I suspect the latter depends on the image (I'd be more likely to use small raw in dark and noisy conditions where I wouldn't have useful pixel-level details anyway, and that might hurt the compression). Still, I think this confirms the "small raw is probably not useful" position. I hope they either find a better way to implement it or at least enable compression in the D820 (or a bios update).<br />

<br />

He's got some nice things to say about the buffer size, too. So long as you're not shooting small raw, obviously. :-)</p>

[alan_bessler_sr]

<p>Thanks Andrew glad I could help you out !!</p>

[dan_south]

<blockquote>

<p>moire is essentially a complete non-issue on the D800E.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The D800E can exhibit moiré very easily. Photograph choppy (not still) water in direct sunlight. You'll see the effect. It's actually difficult to avoid.<br>

I've also seen moiré in bricks in distant buildings - also lit by direct sunlight - but this isn't a problem as frequently.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Removing the anti-alias filter is now standard on all Nikon DSLRs </p>

</blockquote>

<p>Not on the flagship D4 series.</p>

 

[dan_south]

<p>The D810 looks like a very nice camera. The changes are more evolutionary than revolutionary - enhancements on an already good design - but that doesn't make them any less important.</p>

<p>For instance, the electronic first curtain shutter would be very useful in stabilizing images in the "shutter danger zone" range of 1/4 to 1/60s. In some shooting situations (not all), one can use Mirror Lock Up or Live View to eliminate the same vibration, but neither of those options are available when shooting time lapse sequences with the intervalometer, for instance.</p>

<p>It doesn't sound like a major innovation, but under the right circumstances, this one small feature could make a big difference in image/video quality.</p>

<p><strong>OTHER FEATURES</strong></p>

<ul>

<li>No anti-aliasing filter on the sensor - time will tell if it improves image quality significantly over the D800E</li>

<li>Increased frame rate - not important to me</li>

<li>Longer battery life - I already carry plenty of batteries</li>

<li>Better high-ISO performance - always welcome when it's needed</li>

<li>Higher resolution LCD screen - that would be a welcome change for manual focusing tasks</li>

<li>Group-type autofocus - D4s users rave about it, and I have no doubt that it will be useful, but it seems like a bit of a kludge. Why not elevate autofocus in general? Canon did it.</li>

<li>Highlight priority metering and "flat" picture style - In the best case scenario, the histogram of a flattened JPEG might more accurately represent the contents of the raw file, but this has yet to be demonstrated.</li>

</ul>

<p><strong>CAVEAT EMPTOR</strong></p>

<p>Nikon has a track record of quality control problems in early production runs. Remember the left autofocus point issue when the D800 was first shipped? Or the infamous "oil droplet" problem with the D600? I haven't decided whether I'll try the D810 - I'm still learning how to get the most out of my D800E - but if I do, I'll wait for Nikon to work the kinks out of their production process.</p>

<p><strong>OPPORTUNITY COST</strong></p>

<p>On the flip side, I could buy a Sony A7r and a nice lens for the price of a D810. Given that I already own the D800E, an impressive performer especially when I can work slowly on a tripod, a small, grab-and-go Sony with the same powerful sensor technology seems like an appealing option.</p>

<p>Hmm... Decisions! Decisions!</p>

[eric_arnold]

<p>minty low-actuation d800's are now hovering around $2000... the 810 upgrade seems like a minor refresh but should mean prices will fall a bit lower on the 'obsoleted' model. ;)</p>

[donbright]

<p>So the D800E was offered, and had the badge, 'E,' because it eliminated the installation of the, Anti-Aliasing filter? Meaning with it, Moire was less of an issue? And without the Anti-Aliasing filter, there is more of a chance of Moire. Well, in the natural world I would think there might be less moire issues anyway, where as man made repetitive patterns like screens, bricks, certain clothing designs could, or would be an issue. I also understand that the D800E kept the Optical Low Pass Filter, which the D810 does not have, so reasonably the D810 has one less filter, and therefore should edge out the D800E in sharpness. By how much is anyones guess for now.</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p><em>Nikon has a track record of quality control problems in early production runs.</em></p>

<p>In 2012, yes, one year after the earthquake and tsunami in Japan and flooding in Thailand. But apart from those products that came immediately after those events, I haven't heard of, or experienced significant quality control issues in the D4s, D7100, D610, or Df (which are newer products). Nor in the earlier D3X, D3s, D3, D700, D300s, D300, for that matter. It is strange to me how people think that factories and cities can be flooded into the ocean, tens of thousands of people can be lost, but to the customer on another continent, manufacturing must go on just as before, no glitches please, and don't make any excess inventory nor have shortages, and do reduce prices while you're fixing what's left of your country.</p>