MF Camera for Hand Held Close up Work

[don_cameron3]

<p>Right now I use my Nikon digital and film gear with a macro zoom lens for close up work. About 4-5cm from the subject. Small flowers etc. I do it hand held and relatively happy with the results. However I would like to try returning to 6x6 film for this work after a 20 year hiatus. Since this is a hobby I would like to keep the kit to under $1000.<br>

I have looked at a variety of MF film cameras and scoured the threads comparing the pros and cons, and it has boiled down to SLRs (no rangefinders, TLR or 6x4.5) and the 500CM or the SL66E. From all the various threads, the 500CM is lighter, more accessories available for cheaper, easier to get repairs. But the SL66E has built in TTL and bellows for tilt shift/close up (but is heavy/bulky, limited accessories and more difficult repairs).<br>

I would like to make the 500CM work with the minimum accessories, as it is smaller lighter which lends itself to my hand held style of photography. So here are my questions:<br>

(1) with 500CM and 80mm lens, how close can I get?<br>

(2) with 500CM and a 50mm extension tube what kind of distance can I get?<br>

(3) I would like to use a waist level finder, but since the 500CM does not have TTL build in, what metering options would be suitable for close up work?<br>

Thanks for the help.</p>

 

[edward_giarusso1]

<p>Dave, welcome back to film<br>

I do not use Hassy equipment but you may get some answers from the Zeiss Historical lenses home page.<a href="http://www.zeiss.com/camera-lenses/en_us/camera_lenses/classics/hasselblad.html">Hasselblad | ZEISS United States</a><br>

Years ago i sold a Minolta Spotmeter f and that was a mistake. The one degree can really tag the correct exposure. Lastly, there have to be some used books out there on Close-up Hassy photography. Check out Bookfinder. Good luck<br>

Ed</p>

[eskoi.pohjanpalo]

<p>Hi Dave<br>

I'm lucky to have Rolleiflex SL66SE, where in bellows and reverted 80mm lens I can reach to 1:1.5. In good light with monopod nice results are possible.</p>

 

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[steve_levine]

<p>The Hasselblad bellows with the 135mm S-Planar lens allows nice shooting distances and 1:1. Some of the sharpest MF slides I've ever seen were shot with this combo. Expensive but worth every penny when you see the results.</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

<a href="http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/HT/HTCuC.aspx">This calculator</a> answers your questions about how close you can get using several lenses with or without added extension. (It still suffers from the server's poor configuration, and when you get an error page, surf away and return to it and it will work.)<br>The answer to 1) is 90 cm, the answer to 2) is that there is no 50 mm extension tube, but with a 55 mm or 56 mm tube and 80 mm lens it's about 33 cm.<br>Any of the meter prisms will work for close-ups. A hand held meter and a calculator will also get you the right results.

[User_502260]

<p>I recently bought a 100/4 Zenzanon E macro lens for $90. It fits the ETR series cameras and gets to 1:4 without any additional extension. Bronica does not recommend stacking extension tubes so the longest tube which can be added is the E42. Is a bellows unit something which will make hand holding the whole rig impossible? That's for each person to decide. The ETR is a 6X45 camera, not a 6X6 camera. Using any camera hand held for macro work will not produce the very highest image quality the equipment is capable of but using it with flash will get you close to that level. To make things easier, a camera and flash combination which will allow TTL flash metering is good to have. It will be difficult for you to get all of these things with Hasselblad equipment and still keep to your budget of $1,000. Bronica made a later 105/4.5 PE macro lens which goes all the way to 1:1 with no additional extesion but that lens alone would cost more than $1,000. <br />I don't find auto focusing very useful for macro work but the ability to change ISO at will and the availability of image stabilization are two very important advantages which digital cameras offer. This combination of features is not found in any medium format film SLRs. For these reasons, unless you use flash you may find that using a medium format film SLR will not give you the results you are used to with a DSLR for hand held macro shooting. The ETRSi accepts meter prisms and will work in TTL flash mode with the right SCA compatible flash units. Its Speed Grip attachment makes holding the camera comfortable and makes advancing the film easier. If you do not wish to use flash then an older ETRS will usually cost less and can be used with non-TTL flash if you like. The Zenzanon lenses for the ETR series cameras all have built-in leaf shutters which synch with flash at all speeds. This can be useful for balancing flash and ambient light.</p>

[donbright]

<p>I think your on the right track with the CM, but I can't get around why you're so determined to do macro work handheld? Where detail is the hallmark of macro. Well, OK.</p>

[john_stockdale2]

<p>There are significant pros and cons for the SL66. It's a handful if shooting fast, the range of lenses is less than Hasselblad, flash sync limited to slow focal plane shutter speed (unless an in-shutter lens is acquired) and it might be tricky to repair, with some well known guys dying recently. But I have found it a joy to use, and it really is versatile without adding more gear (bellows etc). I bought a couple of spare bodies in case I couldn't get mine repaired here at the end of the Earth, but haven't needed them. I have to admit to some bias.</p>

[ftwopointeight]

<p>I have a Rollei 6003, and it came with the 80mm Planar. Two years ago my wife bought me the Rollei 250mm f/5.6 Zeiss Sonar PQS for my birthday, and somewhere along the way I found a Rollei PQ 2X teleconverter. I use the converter on the 80 a lot, with great results. I used it on the 250 once for some shots of the moon and it did fine, but have not tried any macro work with it on either lens. Now Rollei does make a macro lens, the 90mm f4 Schneider PQS, but Ive never seen one in person. I work at a camera store, and we have a big film section. </p>

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[JDMvW]

<p>Given the very, extremely shallow depth of field in most macro work, I think handheld is really pushing it, even with faster (=grainier) films. Larger format gives you some "cushion"-- the motion blur will still be there, but will only show at larger enlargements.<br>

If you enlarge or scan some of the images from old 6x9 handheld folders with one speed (often=1/30 sec), you'll see that most of the images are <em>apparently</em> sharp only at contact-print size.</p>

[don_cameron3]

<p>Thanks to everyone for the help. All of my work is more "close-up" rather than "macro" (if there is such a difference) as most of my photos are no more than 1:2. So I could probably get my needs met with 55mm extension tube.<br>

I really like the TTL meter of the SL66E - it can be used with a waist level finder. Looks like there is no other 6x6 SLR that has this feature. Too bad.</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

There are other 6x6 SLRs that can do that, Dave, but they are much more expensive.<br>Handheld meters do work fine too. even in close-up, needing compensation, when using only one or a couple of lenses and one or two tubes, it is easy enough to remember when to compensate how much, or keep that info in a little table.<br>But perhaps the Rollei is the camera that works best for you. Give it a try.

[don_cameron3]

<p>Q.G. you have piqued my interest, what other 6x6 film cameras have in-body TTL metering (not TTL OTF Flash) that can be used with a waist level finder?</p>

[ondebanks]

<p>Dave, some other 6x6 film cameras with in-body metering and WLF options are the Rollei SLX and 6000 series (culminating in the 6008 line). There are also some Hasselblad 200 series models but I forget which ones exactly - QG will know this.</p>

[User_502260]

<p>The Bronica GS-1 has its TTL flash control in the body and it will work (with the right flash unit) without a meter prism. Using a camera with a rectangular format with a waist level finder can be awkward, especially for verticals. There is also a rotary angle finder. Another possibility is using an angle finder with a meter prism. </p>

[don_cameron3]

<p>Thanks for the info guys. For some reason, I missed the 6008 as an option (not sure why) - but it fits the budget and has in-body metering.</p>

[w_t1]

<p>I'm not happy with my macro/close up 35mm/digital work handheld, never mind 6x6. Just wondering what your subject is that you dont have time or want to take the time to use a tripod? I use a hassy 503cx and handheld meter and tripod and chimney prism for close up. One thing is if you get a mf cam with metering prism, is there anyone that can still service them? Last I looked on keh and ebay lot of prisms are sold "meter inop", but I"m not familiar with the Rollei. Tom</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

Re handheld: you always (!) get better results using a tripod. Sometimes there are reasons why not to use a tripod, and it's better to have something (handheld shots) than nothing. But we should be aware of 'the cost' of not using a tripod.<br><br>You can still get the Hasselblad meter prisms repaired if needed. I don't know about Mamiya or Bronica, but i can imagine there are still places you can have their meter prisms repaired. The 6000-series rolleis of course don't need meter prisms.

[maris_rusis]

<p>It's not a Hasselblad or a Rollei SL66 but the best macro roll-film camera is a Mamiya RB67.</p>

<p>It features bellows focussing so every lens is a macro lens. With a 50mm lens on the front it focusses nearly to 1:1 without accessories or extra expense. The lens even has a floating element to optimise close-up image quality. And it stops down to f32 if you want to explore depth of field versus diffraction trade-offs.</p>

<p>A working outfit can be had for way under $1000.</p>

[tom_chow]

<p>The hasselblad 202fa, 203fe, and both varients of the 205's have built in meters that work well with the waist level finder. The 202 cannot use the leaf shutters. All exceed your budget, but so does the rollei sl66e. But for close up work, the rollei is the obvious choice. </p>