Looking for a Radio Slave for Old School Balcar Studio Strobes

[ericnelson]

 

 

<blockquote >I've got the 1200 and 2400WS Balcar power packs and I just fried the receiver of my Micnova radio slave plugging into it to see if it would trigger it. My 2400WS pack is similar to this one. </blockquote>

<blockquote ><a id="attachment1145" href="http://www.dpug.org/forums/attachments/f26/1145d1410704193-looking-radio-slave-old-school-balcar-studio-strobes-screen-shot-2014-09-14-9-15-14-pm-png" rel="Lightbox_26899" target="_blank"><img title="screen-shot-2014-09-14-9-15-14-pm-png" src="http://www.dpug.org/forums/attachments/f26/1145d1410704193t-looking-radio-slave-old-school-balcar-studio-strobes-screen-shot-2014-09-14-9-15-14-pm-png" alt="screen-shot-2014-09-14-9-15-14-pm-png" border="0" /></a><br /><br />I'm wondering if there is a radio slave made today that can handle the voltage from old school power packs like these? I <em>can</em> use a synch cord plugged into a Wein safe synch, as I'm using a Canon 6D, but I'd prefer going wireless.<br /><br />Thanks for any help.<br /><br />Eric</blockquote>

 

 

[ellis_vener_photography]

PocketWizard, PocketWizard, PocketWizard. I used the original 16 channel, 32 channel and MultiMAX PocketWizards

with my Balcars when I had them in the mid/late '90s up through about 2006. I had a couple of Monoblocs, 2 R600 packs

(one modified to be a 1200 w-s pack), three A2400 and one A 5000 packs. The PocketWizards never, ever had problems

with any of them.

[ellis_vener_photography]

I hope that helps!

[craig_shearman1]

<p>PocketWizard. The basic Plus-X is all you need.</p>

[ericnelson]

Thank you. I'm in Bangkok so I hope I can find the specified models here. Also the idea of running the receiver thru a

safe synch might be an option on he power pack if I can figure out how to configure that.

 

My 1200ws pack needs a basic 3 prong extension cord to be powered and I cannot find one here! Yes a cord we can find

in any hardware store or Walgreens in he US I cannot find anywhere and will have to make one. So you can imagine how

hard it can be to find stuff. :)

[ericnelson]

<p>I take that back as I was able to find the specs for the Plus-X and it can handle up to 300 volts. Yay. </p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>Correct, no need for Safe Sync with a radio trigger. <br /><br />By three-prong extension cord, you mean an extension cord. Or do you mean an IEC cord? An IEC cord is commonly used on computers. It has a special three-hold female end that goes into a three-prong recessed male connector on computers and a standard three-prong female plug on the end that plugs into the wall. If that's what you need, try a computer store, or borrow one off a computer. I think the computer end is standard worldwide. The connector on the other end will vary with what country you're in. What electrical system do you have in Bangkok? </p>

[ericnelson]

<p>OK never mind the site won't let me post the pics. Grrr.<br>

I know the computer cord type you mentioned but that is different. My newer pack will use that. We're 220V here. The switches on Balcars that allow you to switch voltage are very handy. :) It's just a standard 3 prong cord and will have to get someone to make it for me. =\</p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

Make sure you also have 220v modeling lights too.

 

I know what you are referring to about the older plug style. Didn't you get the seller to power the lights up for you before

purchasing?

[ericnelson]

The modeling light are the same as when I was in the US. BY using the voltage switch on he packs, they work fine. I

stupidly thought, that I wouldn't be able to use US extension cords with the 220V here so I didn't bring any when I moved.

I also thought I could buy them here!

 

I've used these packs and heads for a LONG time but mostly with film.<div></div>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>Ellis, PWs are still only rated up to 300 Volts (or 50 Volts for the TTL versions), unlike any of the cheap wireless slaves you can buy off the internet, which are mostly rated at 400V. And neither the PWs nor cheapos will trigger a reverse polarity (firing pin negative) strobe. Maybe you were just lucky with the pack and component tolerances.</p>

<p>I've had old kit from Bowens, that I now know puts out an O/C voltage of around 600 volts on the trigger socket, which fried a quite expensive transceiver type radio trigger. The real answer is to have the old flash kit modified to bring the trigger voltage down, and to have it fitted with a standard non-reversible jack socket on the trigger input.</p>

[ericnelson]

<p>I take that back as I was able to find the specs for the Plus-X and it can handle up to 300 volts. Yay. </p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

Maybe I was just lucky with about ten packs and monolights, of different vintages, all bought used from various sellers

and studios, and at different times.

 

And yes I know how how to use a volt/ amp meter.

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>"And yes I know how how to use a volt/ amp meter." - Unfortunately the average 10 Megohm digital voltmeter doesn't have a high enough input resistance to accurately measure the open-circuit voltage of those old trigger circuits. You ideally need something called an "Electrometer" Ellis, which has a near infinite input impedance.</p>

<p>The issue is that old trigger circuits usually have a resistance of anywhere from 2 to 20 Megohms in series with them. This forms a potential divider with the input resistance of the voltmeter, thereby giving an under-reading of at least 17% and up to 66%. (The resistance limits the <em>current</em> to a level too small to damage humans or old mechanical synch switches, but the O/C <em>voltage</em> may still be high enough to rupture and destroy a modern semiconductor switching device.)</p>

<p>However in the absence of an electrometer, the open-circuit voltage can be calculated by using a supplementary high resistance (say 10 Megohm) in series with a DVM of known input resistance. This is done by taking two readings, one with and one without the supplementary series resistor, and then using simultaneous equations to work out "V" and "R" where V is the unknown voltage and R is the unknown series resistance. So reading (A) is given by the formula A = V*20/(20+R); and reading (B) from B = V*10/(10+R). The value of R being in Megohms, and assuming the common value of 10 Megohms for both the meter resistance and supplementary resistor.</p>

<p>I've done this with old Metz and Sunpak battery-portable flashes, only to find that the O/C trigger voltage is about the same as the main capacitor charge voltage - and can be anywhere between 325 to 375 volts. Old studio flash gear is on average higher than this at something between 350 and 600 volts. Meaning that the 300 volt rating of a PocketWizard is likely to be exceeded by almost any flash equipment designed before the mid-1980s. Therefore cheap triggers rated at 400 volts are a better bet, and are much less expensive if they do get fried.</p>

[ericnelson]

<p>Shot my first job today using my 2400WS pack with the same modeling lights and tubes that I shipped over here and had no problems during the short portrait session. So what are these cheap brands of radio slave that are rated at 400 volts? I think I'll have better luck finding them here than trying to find a safe synch for the power pack like this one here.<br>

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/245295-REG/Wein_990_510_Monoplug_Safe_Sync.html<br>

If said models can work with the Balcar AND my 580EXII then I'm up for looking into those.</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>I've been quite impressed with the quality of <em>some of</em> the products from a company called "iShoot". Their trigger range has some really cheap and nasty types, that I wouldn't recommend, but I've had good luck with this type: http://photoloving.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_61&product_id=136<br /> I remember seeing the spec somewhere and the triggering device used is rated at 400 volts. But they're so cheap that they're practically disposable anyway.</p>

<p>These new PW clones look quite good as well: http://photoloving.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_61&product_id=159<br /> Again, at less than half of PW's price for a similar product I think it's a no-brainer.</p>

<p>There are also this type: http://photoloving.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_61&product_id=128<br /> that are dedicated to firing studio flashes only. They link into the mains lead for receiver power. Saves on batteries for the receiver(s).</p>

<p>Be careful if ordering. You'll notice that all their trigger model numbers start with PT-04. What's that all about!?</p>

[ian_casement]

<p>Balcar packs have brilliant optical slave cells and with their directional reflective caps I've never had any problem using them with optical triggers. Its been a long time since I used the original 1200, but I have no doubt that optical would be highly efficient way of triggering. I certainly had no issues in any situation.</p>

[ericnelson]

<p>Ian, I know the 2400's slave works fine as the rental studio here was taking photos of my setup and I could hear the long shutter exposure. So I told hime to turn on his on-camera flash and I opened the slave lid and his little flash set off mine giving him lots of light. :)<br>

What I'm trying to do is have a radio slave from the camera to a power pack so I can be untethered, not have to worry about tripping over the synch cord and sending my camera crashing to the floor and, as happened in this last shoot, have the PC cord come slightly out of the the safe synch on my camera leaving me with no flash till I reconnect. Not that radio slaves are perfect but I don't like having to be tethered all the time while shooting people.</p>

[ian_casement]

<p>You need only an IR transmitter on your camera then. I've used these reliably for over 35 years and still do. With built-in slave cells on packs requiring no batteries it just makes sense.<br>

Wein and Prolinca make IR triggers.</p>

[ericnelson]

<p>Well I made a trip to a large mall here, MBK, that has a lot of camera stores and electronics. None of the suggested triggers/slaves were there. I ended up saying F-it and buying the same one I had before (Micnova MQ-FT-C) as the rental studio I use next week doesn't include them with their provided strobes.<br>

For my own strobes which are at a different rental studio, I will have to get a Wein safe synch for the power pack <em>mailed</em> here along with an extension cord to save the hassle of having one made. <br>

I did contact Loving Photo about their iShoot devices. Now, it IS a Chinese company and maybe the language barrier prevented them from understanding me, but since the specs for the devices are not on their web site for all their devices, I asked them directly via email:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p><strong>"I use older style studio strobes and the voltage could be 300-400V from the synch port. </strong><strong>Can your units tolerate this voltage? I ruined my Micnova transceiver because it cannot tolerate this higher voltage.</strong><br>

<strong>This unit <a href="http://photoloving.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_61&product_id=128" target="_blank">http://photoloving.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_61&product_id=128</a> specifies that it is 110-250V so it would get ruined by my strobes too I think."</strong></p>

</blockquote>

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<blockquote>

<strong>"Thanks for your inquiry.<br /> <br />I'm sorry, our flash trigger maybe can't work with your strobe flash eighther.<br /> <br />Lily"</strong>

</blockquote>

<strong> </strong>

 

Of note as well is that despite being a Chinese manufacturer, they have no distributors here in Thailand so anything I get from them would need to be shipped here from China. Also of note re:buying stuff here, forget about all the liberal return policies you know and expect in the US. The don't exist here. You buy it, you're stuck.

 

I had to make a trip to visit the rental studio yesterday so that was a motocy taxi ride there, then another motocy taxi to get to the train, then the train to MBK, then trudging thru that massive mall to get to the 5th floor thru the masses of people, visit a couple stores trying to find the specs on the enclosed instruction manuals, dealing with explaining in my broken Thai what I needed each time, and finally just saying the h_ll with it and buying the Micnova for $55 (1800THB). That was the cheap one of my choices available.

 

So if you ever move to Thailand, be sure to bring all these things with you and more as the hassle later finding them is a real PITA and shipping from overseas is of course expensive.

 

NOTE: Sorry for the run-on paragraph but the formatting didn't work here.

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