Buying a Used Leica M9

[carbon_dragon]

I have been waffling for some time on my next camera. I currently use two mainly, a Leica M8 (mostly for IR photography) and a Nex7.

I've been debating buying a used M9 for some time, but the M240 and the Sony A7R (and the LEICA M-E) have complicated things a bit.

I've gone back and forth about which one to go for.

 

 

Between the M9 and the M-E, I like the idea of the newer nature of the M-E and I could probably buy one new but I really like the silver

grey finish and don't like the M-E finish much. Cosmetic I know. I don't use the USB or the frame preview.

 

 

Between the M9 and the M240 even a used one would be almost $6000 and I'm not sure I'd really like it better. I probably wouldn't use

the EVF or the movies and I like simple UIs. I like the 24MP sensor and the better high ISO (though most of my shots are at low ISOs).

I'm not sure the M240 would be worth the extra money.

 

 

Between the M9 and the A7R, I like the Nex7 but I'm guessing that I'd like carrying around the M9 a little more and there are supposed

issues with wideangle lenses (esp Voigtlander) on the Sonys.

 

 

So if I go for an M9, who should I buy it from? I bought my M8 from Tamarkin and that was a good experience and they have 6 month

warranties but they have no silver grey M9s at the moment. B&H seems to have a much shorter warranty. KEH goes 6 months and they

have a better selection at the moment. Any advice on who to buy from and how the various warranties work? Good stories and bad

stories? Anything to avoid or make sure of before I buy? You're welcome to tell me I should be buying an M-E or a M240 if you like but tell

me why you think so.

 

 

Also for those of you who might have bought used, did you have big problems that you had to send to Leica to solve? If so, what did the

repair cost?

 

 

Thanks.

[Gus Lazzari]

<p>Get the <strong>Sony A7</strong> (The A7a shortcomings aren't outweighed by added MegaPix) and use the money you saved on the soon to be released super-wide primes; <strong>i.e.</strong> Zeiss FE 21mm f/2.8 or the fast Zeiss FE 24mm f/2.0</p>

<p>For it's been addressed many times:</p>

<ol>

<li>No EVF - The M9 focus device is low magnification, often/easily knocked out of calibration and virtually impossible to deal with the <em>focus-shift</em> issues of many available lenses.</li>

<li>Some lenses are prohibited - i.e. <strong>DR</strong> Summicron</li>

<li>Sensor cracking.</li>

<li>LCD screen performance behind some 5 to 6 years.</li>

<li>Slow <a href="http://www.jenoptik.com/7355CDD8919D5E14C125775E003108CA">Jenoptik</a> digital designs for frustrating interaction.</li>

<li>JPEG produces substandard color rendition.</li>

<li>Wacky,<strong> remove</strong> the baseplate to change SD card.</li>

<li>Limited to only being an RF camera. Sony can grow from sports MD, to macro, to video, to MF to AF to SLR lens use.</li>

</ol>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>soon to be released super-wide primes; <strong>i.e.</strong> Zeiss FE 21mm f/2.8 or the fast Zeiss FE 24mm f/2.0</p>

</blockquote>

<p>where is that information coming from?</p>

[carbon_dragon]

I do like the EVF and my Nex7 has a great one but I can focus faster and better with the rangefinder. I no longer have any

"prohibited" lenses. Can't say I'm unconcerned about serious problems like sensor cracking but my M8 hasn't had any

issues other than getting dirty. LCD performance -- yeah I'm not fond of that, I do like reviewing Nex files in the EVF or the

big rear display. Never have shot jpeg. Can't carry tripods anymore so removing the bottom is quirky but not a problem.

Yes I like my Nex's versatility but funny thing is I rarely use it. When I need an auto camera these days though I do use

the Nex and the Sony 16-80 alpha lens with an adapter but it's a rare occasion and I can still use the Nex for those

occasions.

 

 

All those issues are real ones, but most are not problems for me. You know what I really would like to have in the Nex (or

the A7r) is a focus confirmation light or a virtual rangefinder patch or something. Peaking isn't accurate enough by itself

without viewfinder magnification (for me).

[tom m.]

<p>I just bought a used Leica M9 ten days ago from a local camera store. It showed some signs of wear on the black paint, but was very serviceable. The store manager cleaned the sensor for me and it works well. I am happy. If you buy a used camera, it wise to check the sensor and the number of shutter snaps. I would agree with all the points made by Gus above, but I bought the Leica because I wanted a Leica. I had an M7 for a long time. The M9 is much more primitive than my Fujifilm X100S or the Sony A7 that Gus mentioned. It is old 2009 technology. But it does take good photographs. And yes, the baseplate is weird.</p><div></div>

[james_elwing]

<p>Price is the thing. I have a grey M9, and would probably buy another at good second hand prices if it was lost. I like its familiarity</p>

 

[ulrik]

<p>The Leica M9 is an electronic device. Therefore I strongly suggest to buy it either from a dealer who offers warranty or from a private seller as long as the the camera ist still under warranty. I bought my M9 that was still under extended warranty, currently it is for calibration at the service in Wetzlar.</p>

[Karim Ghantous]

I agree that focus peaking alone is not

sufficient, especially for telephoto

lenses.

 

The M9 is getting cheaper these days.

I saw one sell for AU$3,350. Maximum

market value seems to be around

AU$4,500.

 

It just takes great photos. Just keep the

ISO down. M240 has a better sensor

and live view - the other features are

meaningless to me.

 

If you haven't yet read it (and you

should!), here is Thorsten Overgaard's

epic M9 review:

 

http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M9-

digital-rangefinder-camera.html

 

This shows the new M vs the A7r. The

M is superior with wide-angles:

 

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/leica-

m-vs-sony-a7r-by-stilgar/

[charlie_webster1]

I have both A7 and M9 I bought two months ago.

 

I like them both. In terms of image quality, the m9 is much better.

 

Since you have an nex 7, you know the strengths of the sonys.

 

My used Leica had recently had sensor replaced. There are quite a few of these appearing now. I paid 3500, I see them

quite nice as low as 3K.

 

Below ISO 800 the m9 is still the best camera in the world, I reckon :)

 

Let us know what you do and how you like the results :-)

[stan_blevins]

<p>Hi David, I asked the same question about six months ago. My answer: I had used Leica film cameras and loved them, and I wanted to try a Leica digital. Many PhotoNet responders encouraged me, so I bought a "like new' M9 from Dale Photo. I have "shot the daylights" out of it and loved every minute of having it! Using ISOs under 800 is no problem for me. I've gotten accustomed to the poor viewing screen; no big deal. My eyesight is poor and I wear glasses, but I've easily overcome that and love the rangefinder way of doing things. I'd say if you want the Leica experience, buy an M9 and don't look back. Never mind the naysayers; there will always be some and in some ways "the grass will always be greener" somewhere else.</p>

[jim_a]

<p>Like Stan I've used and loved M bodies for many years. My interest in a digital M rears its head every so often. At a demo days last year I was able to play with the new M-E for a few minutes. A few years prior I handled an M9 at the same event and came away underwhelmed. The M9 shutter release felt notchy and the the RF patch flared, much like me beloved M6 before DAG "fixed" it.<br>

The M-E didn't flare, the shutter release was smooth and the shutter was very quiet. They had a monochrome M on hand as well. I could feel the camera vibrate in my hands as the shutter recocked.<br>

Leica is famous for making changes during production runs. I'm guessing the M9 I saw years ago was among the first built and later M9's are probably as good as the M-E I experienced. Even the film M bodies varied in feel from unit to unit.<br>

I too would not miss the PV function or USB on the M-E and having the Leica warranty would be nice. It probably time to rent an M-E or M9 and put this to rest.<br>

</p>

[philip_wilson]

<p>I bought the M240 because I loved my M8 so much. The M9 is a good buy if you don't need high ISO. In many ways I like the handling of the M8 / M9 better than the M240 which has a lot more digital aspects to it. I also like the colours from the older CCD sensor slightly better. I have tried the Sony's but for me when I shoot the rangefinder I want the rangefinder experience. In terms of IQ the Sonys are fine but they don't give a rangefinder experience. I would suggest you get a good used M-E or M9</p>

[carbon_dragon]

Thanks for your feedback. I'm still leaning toward an M9, and I'd like to buy from Tamarkin or KEH because I want some

kind of warranty. I bought my M8 from Tamarkin, but I've bought pretty expensive stuff from KEH too (Contax RTS III,

Leica 35/2 ASPH, etc.) and they are local.

 

 

To some extent, between the M9 and the A7r it comes down to technique. I can focus the Nex by pointing it at an object

with a Leica lens, focusing by peaking, magnifying the image and focusing more finely, and then snapping the picture, or I

can focus the M8's rangefinder cam and snap the picture and since typically I am wanting sharpest focus on a specific

item, the latter seems cleaner and easier. I like putting any kind of weird lens on the Nex but the truth is I still take the

majority of my shots with just a few lenses. I was very comfortable with my M2s for years and I kind of want that again.

[Karim Ghantous]

Some further thoughts. If you're on a

paid job, you'd want two bodies. $7,000

is not a big deal for an M240, but

$14,000 for two is pushing it, even if

you're a high income earner (more for

the principle than the mere cost). All

IMHO.

[james_elwing]

<p>Jim A, there are 4 shutter settings on an M9, standard, soft, discreet, discreet & soft. Do you know what the setting was when you got to handle one?<br>

Were you able to play with these settings? I doubt if the M-E shutter is any different from the M9. If there had been any significant changes someone on this discussion group would most likely have brought it up.<br>

Otherwise, as David suggests, I think Leica have put a lot of effort into handling edge colour shifts with wide angle lenses. The last few M9 software upgrades, combined with a centre spot ND filter, set as for 21mm lens, gives me an acceptable image edge to edge with little colour shift on my Voigtlander 12mm.<br>

Most of the photos have been for reports. I am a child in this area and want instant results, rely on the camera to do most of the work, rather than spending hours with Photoshop on each image.</p>

[jim_a]

<p>Hi James,<br>

This was more than three years ago. I have no memory of the settings on the camera. I do have the RAW DNG files I made with this camera if that setting is captured in the EXIF data.</p>

[james_elwing]

<p>Jim, I was just confused about your description 'notchy'. The default shutter setting is a bit noisier than an M3 in good nick, but feels mostly the same. The other settings are softer but have a different feel.</p>

[steve_bellayr]

<p>From Erwin Puts essay "The Dark Side of Digital Cameras"<br /><br>

"As long as we refresh our equipment every three years, we will have a slight chance that we will meet a problem, but as the M8 owners now start to realize is that after a period of five to six years unexpected things are going to happen."<br>

Full essay available online.<br /><br>

</p>

<p > </p>

 

[jim_a]

<p>James, by "Notchy" I meant pressing down on the shutter release button to the point the shutter trips wasn't entirely smooth. I've noticed the release on Leica's can vary from body to body.</p>

[hai_a.]

<p>Since I have heard of the new Sony a7, I thought this is the camera to replace my M9. I recently found out that I use my old and faithful M6 much more than my digital M9, so I thought this is the time to say goodbye.<br>

Few days ago I reviewed my M9 vs. a7 and... although the Sony is fun, small, great IQ, great high ISO, you can use many types of lenses on it, and there's even an artificial horizon to tell you the camera is not levelled (!), BUT, the Leica, although inferior in every tangible aspect, still delivers results which I think are better than the Sony. The Sony image is very digital and cold, while the Leica is like a vinyl record - warm and human... I cannot prove it, and for some people it might won't be enough to buy such an expensive camera, but I may stay with my M9....</p>

[richard_kline3]

<p>I have an M9, an M3, a D800E, an FM3A, and an F5. I've had too many other Nikons to mention over the last 30 years. I have every M-mount and F-mount lens, from every manufacturer, I could ever want. I take pictures only for my own (and my family's) enjoyment. The M9 regularly produces photos I would not trade for anything. Is it worth its price? Hell no, it's worth a whole lot more, in my opinion. Only online images I've seen to compete with it are from Pentax 645D, and it's as expensive and a whole lot bigger. If you don't need autofocus and / or high frame rate, buy it if you can afford it, the images are amazing once you learn to use it. I have used an M 240, elected not to purchase because I liked the M9 images better. It is best to keep a DSLR system as well for things rangefinders do not do well, but without question all other cameras would go before my M9.</p>

[carbon_dragon]

Just to put a p.s. to the thread, I did ultimately buy the M9 from B&H along with an extended warranty. I know they usually

aren't worth buying but it will make me feel better. So far so good.

[jim_a]

<p>To follow up on <a href="/photodb/user?user_id=501216">James Elwing</a>'s response about the "notchy" feeling shutter. I did rent an M-E for a week and noted the distinct difference when the camera was in "soft" shutter release mode compared to the regular mode, which allows for exposure lock. </p>