Black and White/Color Mixed Prints

[pemongillo]

<p>I have my printing down pretty well for both color and B&W prints. I let Photoshop manage my color prints with custom paper profiles and I Let my Epson R2880 printer make custom B&W decisions for me. The custom paper color profiles always produce a color cast (kind of purple) if I try to print a B&W image. However, If I use the printer options for custom B&W and the prints look exactly as I want them. I have recently started mixing B&W and Color in my images. I have been photographing fire spinning and keeping the flames in color and the background and spinner in B&W. They look great on screen. However, the purple cast is there in the entire B&W part of the image. Don't like that. Obviously I have to print in color for the flames to remain in color. Anyone have a work around for this problem?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

[lenny_eiger]

<p>Select the items you want to be b&w (with a broad, soft brush) and use a saturation adjustment layer to desaturate them, or change their color to your liking. You could also use a curve and add a bit of green, probably very little.</p>

[pemongillo]

<p>Thanks Lenny, but I don't believe that is the answer to the question I am asking. Maybe the curve to add a bit of green would work to take the purple out of the B&W part of the "print". I'll try that. By the way the flame is the only color part of the print.</p>

[John Seaman]

<p>A few years ago I had similar problems and found as you suggest, that by adding some of the colour complementary to the cast to the image file to be printed, you should be able to cancel it out in the prints. I even did test strips, darkroom style, with different amounts of the colour added in each strip, to determine the optimum amount. But I'm sure there's a more scientific way of doing it.</p>

[pemongillo]

<p>Thanks John.</p>

[pemongillo]

<p>Lenny, I tried adding a little green to the image today. The flame still looks great and the B&W is much closer to where I want it to be. Thanks !</p>

[lenny_eiger]

<p>Glad to help!</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>Thanks Lenny, but I don't believe that is the answer to the question I am asking.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Big part of the problem is the paper profile. Fine for color, not so fine for B&W. You've seen how well the Advanced B&W works in this respect instead of using all inks and an ICC profile. If you want neutral B&W using all inks and a profile, going to be tough especially if your papers have high OBA's (optical brighteners). Where did the color profile you're using and experiencing a shift come from? What paper and how are you viewing the prints? </p>

[pemongillo]

<p>Yes, I understand the paper profile issue. I use two papers: Kodak Ultra Premium Photo Paper for general work. I made the custom paper profile for that myself and Ilford Gold Fiber Silk for artistic endeavors. I could not make a paper profile better then the one downloaded from Ilford, so I use that. Adding green helped immensely for both papers, but I am still open to new ideas and learning more.</p>

[digitaldog]

<p>What did you use to build the profile? How many patches? Does the software have OBA compensation? </p>

[pemongillo]

<p>I still use easy color suit. The target has 264 patches (I think that is what you are asking) and I doubt a program this old takes into account OBA compensation (I assume that is for optical brighteners). The thing is, the color prints look great...just like my Spectraview calibrated Nec screen, so I assume its just a matter of tweaking the print in PS to compensate for the cast just before I print. I am not likely to spend a bunch of money on the newest and latest color paper profiling software and hardware, because I do little color work. I'm still open to suggestions. Perhaps a different way of calibrating for a mix of color and B&W. Don't know. I know the paper profile I used for Ilford came out much closer to what I wanted without tweaking then the one for the Kodak paper. It took just a touch of green for the Ilford paper and about 10 times more for the Kodak to get pretty close to the neutral grey tones I wanted. The colored flames still looked great with that adjustment</p><div></div>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>I still use easy color suit.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Never heard of it. </p>

<blockquote>

<p>The target has 264 patches</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sounds like more patches would help but it could also be the color engine building the profile. I'd use at least 1500-1700 patches which would hopefully contain enough gray's to assist in that part of color space. </p>

<blockquote>

<p> The thing is, the color prints look great...just like my Spectraview calibrated Nec screen, so I assume its just a matter of tweaking the print in PS to compensate for the cast just before I print. </p>

</blockquote>

<p>Possibility if the two really match. I'd expect you'd see the cast that ends up on the print but again, the OBA's in a paper and the light source can throw this all off. IOW, you might see a dead nuts neutral print under say a Solux lamp or daylight and a cast when viewed under Fluorescent lights. </p>

<blockquote>

<p> I know the paper profile I used for Ilford came out much closer to what I wanted without tweaking then the one for the Kodak paper.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Which could be due in large part to the profile software, patches etc used to build that profile vs. the other. </p>

[pemongillo]

<p>I thought I had posted a response here?<br>

So you are saying that you get B&W prints on paper exactly as they look on your screen using a color paper profile? They are just as good as using something such as Epson Advanced B&W mode? Like I said the Ilford downloaded profile was pretty close. The Kodak one was not (the one I made). Perhaps I should download a profile from the Kodak site and see how that prints B&W. This whole subject is only an issue because of my desire to work more on images like the one posted.<br>

Thanks Andrew</p>