M owners please speak up

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Judging only from the online JPEGs I've seen from Norman, Stephen and others, I'd say the IQ is noticeably better than my Nikon V1. The V1 has ultrafast AF, but it's best to compare the eye-cue with teensy sensor P&S digicams, not with APS sensor cameras. The CX sensor is very good up to ISO 400, but beyond that it isn't in the same class as most APS sensors.</p>

<p>Most of the time I don't care much about IQ one way or another. It doesn't really factor into a lot of my photography. Heck, sometimes I'll choose my lowest IQ digicam specifically for the grungy look.</p>

<p>But it would be tempted to tote a little thing like the EOS M and 22/2 just for those occasions where IQ really is a critical factor and I don't need the quicker response of the V1.</p>

[shutterbud]

<p>The 18-55 is not as sharp as the 22 obviously, but the convenience more than makes up for it. I used 55mm FL quite a lot yesterday. I will experiment with ALO, but I had assumed that rather than bring highlights <em>down</em> I thought its job was to bring shadows<em> up,</em> thereby causing more noise. Possible a combo of ALO and Ex Comp would work for scenes with high contrast. One thing I would say is that the JPG rendition seems a tiny bit soft and is misrepresented on the LCD. Either that or my laptop screen is even worse than I thought! I'll be going out again today Hopefully I'll get some decent shots. </p>

[jay a. frew]

<p>Hello:<br>

I haven't shot that much with the 22mm. I selected a variety of different shot types, with the 22mm, for my flickr public folder. They will give you some idea of the results you can expect (if your final output is www ;~)):<br>

http://www.flickr.com/photos/toxonophile/with/10770450076/<br>

There are two close-up shots of a shaggy mane mushroom (shot on different days). One was hand-held with the 22mm. The other was shot with the tokina 100mm macro and tripod.<br>

The EOS M does work with non-canon flashes. I use sunpaks, vivitars and pocket wizard IIs (as well as canon ettl flashes).<br>

I use Canon DPP for raw conversion and Picture WindowPro for editing.<br>

Someone mentioned (somewhere above) that they wish they could turn off the "Touch Shutter" feature. You can turn it off by pressing the icon in the bottom left-hand corner of the screen (see pg 125 in the pdf manual).<br>

Are any of you using an FD adapter with the "M". If so, I would like to hear about it.<br>

Cheers! Jay</p>

 

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Thanks, Jay, good info - especially good to know it'll work fine with non-Canon flash units and Pocket Wizards.</p>

<p>Picture Window Pro - there's a blast from the past. I used that at least 10 years ago. Does it work with raw files yet or does it still need conversion to TIFF? Good results from my Nikon raw-to-TIFF conversions years ago - I still prefer the PWP results over most of what I got using Nikon Capture. But I've moved on happily to Lightroom.</p>

[Norman 202]

Although you can turn off Touch Shutter, you can't turn off Touch Screen which means you can inadvertently turn touch

shutter back on

 

Lex, treat yourself. As a second, or third, camera, the eos-m is hard to beat at its current price point.

[shutterbud]

<p>With the 18-55 in place, I find I instinctively hold the camera with the first 3 fingers of my left hand and my thumb around the lens, with the heel of my left palm supporting the left corner of body and my right hand in the shutter position. No problem with touching the screen in this mode, but hipshots are difficult unless one uses auto AF or holds it rather gingerly as the touchscreen cannot be turned off the way it can on the GX1. This is a great feature as one can specify the AF point, focal length etc, then turn it all off and get down to some serious 'hipping'. The grip should have been bigger too. It's a curious mixture, as the UI is actually great. I find hitting 'info' to get all settings up then punching whichever one I want to change, hit ok, change it with the control wheel, hit ok then compose the shot. This sounds a lot more work than it is as the camera responds quickly. OK, it is easier to have a dedicated button or better yet, dial as there is on the G15 etc, but that would necessitate a completely different camera design. What one would hope to see is a "Virtual dial" in the next M. Imagine all the less important functions were relegated to a back menu- who needs picture control when shooting Raw? Then the screen sets up two or three virtual dials, ISO, Av, TV on the horizontal and two edges axes and that's it. In A Priority you only need two or even one, ISO. Use the control wheel for Av and the horizontal slider for ISO, with a lock function on it. One very easy firmware update possible which could halfway sort out this problem is for the camera to allow an exposure to be made even if the setting screen was up, unless or until an "OK" press had ben registered. This might not be intuitive, but if pointed out then experienced photographers could deal with it. I don't need to recompose if using the same framing but just need to get ISO 1,600 quick. Image review would be un-necesary until settings had been back to normal, unless specified by the individual user in the menu. Hell, one could even allow a "temporary change of settings: specify number of shots" function which would allow you to change a setting, say exp comp -0.6 EV, for 3 shots before returning to previous setup. There is even room on the screen for this "quick change" function.<br>

Basically, Canon, and all the other mirrorless crowd, are still thinking of the camera as a physical object, when it is in fact a computer with a physical interface. A touch screen opens up so many possibilities which are not being utilised because they still see it as a substitute for a hard object, instead of a software interface.</p>

[jay a. frew]

<p>Hello Lex:</p>

<p>I have used Picture Window Pro for seven or eight years.</p>

<p> http://www.dl-c.com/</p>

<p> The PWPro folks have continuously improved that product and there have been several major updates over the years. I am using the current, 64 bit version (7.0.11) and it is still very inexpensive to buy and to upgrade.</p>

<p> PWPro has had a raw converter (dcraw ~ currently version 9.4 I think) for many years now. However, I have never liked the results. I do like Canon DPP for raw conversion and with the fairly recent introduction of the "lens optimizer" feature, I like it even more so.<br>

Cheers! Jay</p>

[Andy Collins]

<p>Compelling thoughts, Stephen. I'll be interested in seeing what Canon does with the next iteration of the M. I think one of the things that it's easy for me to forget about the M is that it is a part of the EOS system and as such, it has all of the features and capabilities that go along with that. Because of its small size, it's sometimes hard for me to get the idea of it being a PowerShot out of my mind and remembering that I have far more control over the pictures I make with this camera than with a PowerShot or any other compact camera. Now, getting to the point of seeing it as a computer with a physical interface may take a little more work for me! But I do agree that the touch screen does offer a whole host of possibilities that haven't been realized.</p><div></div>

[justthings]

Andy - thanks for pointing me in the direction of those batteries, I will definitely check them out. Jay F - my preference would be to disable

to button on the touch screen so I can't accidentally activate it as I do. As Stephen points out the touch screen is actually a pretty cool

feature, I really like it for the most part, but then I was the guy who liked the Nikon N70 menu system (yeah, I think I was the only one). My

biggest wish for this camera is that it had an articulating screen, that would make shooting with it in some circumstances much easier.

Here is a shot with the 22mm wide open... I think it does OK.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/outwithmycamera13/10544875583/" title="Sumac leaves by outwithmycameraVA, on Flickr"><img

src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2850/10544875583_16f15773ac_o.jpg" width="700" height="550" alt="Sumac leaves"></a>

[shutterbud]

<p>Andy, you're not the only one. Maybe I watch too much Sci Fi :-)</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>It's interesting to note that only a few years ago many of us were wishing and hoping for an APS or larger sensor in a more compact camera. And I was openly doubtful about the possibility of Ricoh squeezing an APS sensor into the GR form factor.</p>

<p>Then Ricoh, Nikon and Canon surprised us all with the new GR, Coolpix A and EOS M, all developed and produced within roughly the same time period. And all selling, at least initially, for around $1,000 USD or less. Every one of them is less expensive, adjusted for inflation, than relatively comparable cameras like the Konica Hexar AF, Contax G and similar luxury model 35mm film compacts of 15-20 years ago.</p>

<p>Yet to hear the naysayers it's still not good enough, not small enough, not versatile enough, not cheap enough, not this, that or the other enough.</p>

<p>Interesting times. One has to assume that if manufacturers read discussion forums at all, it's after a large dose of salts.</p>

[Norman 202]

So, are you going to take the plunge and buy the eos-m?

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Me? I'm awfully tempted. But I just got the SB-N5 flash for the V1, and was planning to add the 18.5/1.8 Nikkor as well. That's my budget for the year. Overall I'm satisfied with the V1 for most of what I photograph.</p>

<p>However I am considering trading a 28/3.5 PC-Nikkor shift lens I no longer use. Depends on whether any retailer that has as EOS M with 22/2 is interested in the trade.</p>

[alan_bryant1]

<p>...The M2 has been announced in Japan. It's unclear whether it will be released in the US and Europe.</p>

<p>Discussion at</p>

<p><a href="/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00cCpp">http://www.photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00cCpp</a></p>

[john_merriman1]

<p>The EOS M is a great camera for certain things, especially where weight or size is a concern. With the 22mm lens it is my take everywhere setup for landscapes since it is so small and light. Yet I it has an APS-C sized sensor. I can stitch multiple shots to create large panoramas that are sharp edge to edge. People are amazed they came from such a small camera and lens.<br>

With the 18-55 IS STM lens the M is a great small video camera. The Hybrid CMOS AF with Movie Servo AF produces very nice smooth and steady focusing videos.<br>

At current prices the EOS M can't beat for the above uses for any camera in its size and weight class. <br>

The problems with the camera come from relying on Live View for action photos. However, it is not any worse than most of the Powershots with their lag in focusing and shot-to-shot times. The Live View blackout on the M is unacceptable (it looks like it has been eliminated in the M2). OTOH the ability to determine the focus point by touching the screen is a major plus.<br>

I agree with Bob though, consider the Rebel SL1. The smallest Canon camera I have found acceptable for simple action shots (like kids playing) is the SL1. The Viewfinder and Phase Detection AF is much faster. Also, the built-in flash recycles much quicker than the anemic ones in Powershots. Plus the Hybrid CMOS AF II with Movie Servo AF is even better than the EOS M. The SL1 with the new 18-135 IS STM is a fantastic combination for family photos and movies, zoos, etc.<br>

However, I will still carry my M and 22mm where weight is a concern and I might want to take landscape photos. </p>

[paul_brenner1]

<p>I bought my EOS M to take on a two-week trip to Italy in September, and I'm glad I did. It is truly an underrated camera. The build quality of both the body and the lenses is superb; and the 11-22 lens is AWESOME. Only one frustration: I really want a wider (longer) zoom than the 18-55, which I find a fairly useless range. The latest rumor is more lenses will be introduced sometime in 2014; if it's as good as the current lenses, I'll buy it from wherever I have to (Asia, Europe, Canada...)<br>

<br />Paul</p>

[miguel_tejada_flores]

<p>Admittedly this is an old, if not actually antique, thread - but I thought I'd weigh in as I am a relatively new (less than 1 week) EOS-M owner. I bought my EOS-M lightly used, with the 22mm wide-angle 'pancake' lens, from a fellow photographer - and so far, it's been a remarkably satisfying small camera. I can already see it will soon become my slide-into-a-pocket-and-take-everywhere camera.<br /> Among its many pluses are super high IQ, and RAW digital negatives which are highly maniupable and capable of beautiful color rendition, micro contrast, and monochrome conversion, among other things.<br /> In the downside column, there's a weird learning curve of figuring out how to use various Menus and touchscreen operations. But it's not all that complicated and once you get it figured out, depending on your shooting style, the camera is actually quite fast - and doesn't suffer from the S-L-O-W focusing reputation of the initial failed firmware.<br /> It also helps to get used to using a tiny focus point rectangle - and an enlargement button on the touchscreen - which allows incredibly fast and accurate focusing on details. The other huge plus about this camera is the ability to do detailed Manual focusing. So far my favorite modes have been Av - aka Aperture Priority, which I used on all my other (largely Lumix micro 4/3) cameras - with AF + MF - an initial focus setting with a quick AF but also additional MF fine-tuning. The MF / Manual Focus only mode is also quite quick - quite cool - and a must for serious detailed focusing.<br /> Haven't used it in bright sunlight so I can't comment on the downside of no EVF yet. But I have an ancient and quite nice Canon-made OVF for an old Leica rangefinder that I'm going to use in the hotshot for those horribly bright days - and I'm sure it will work adequately.<br /> All in all, it's a superb and truly solidly built tiny camera - with (so far at least) outrageous IQ. And at the current reduced prices - I bought my EOS body + 22mm + a few extra batteries and a ND filter for under $300 - I can't complain. In fact, it rivals the other very sweet high-end compact I recently shot with - the brilliant and underrated Nikon Coolpix A - which, like the EOS-M, also allows manual lens focusing (something the newer Ricoh GR apparently doesn't). The EOS-M may not be the best CSC camera in the universe - but as a high-quality and inexpensive competitor to either the Coolpix A or the Ricoh GR....it rocks.</p>