Pro Portable Lighting (Profoto & Hensel)

[jonathan_menezes]

<p>Ok guys, I am looking to buy a Professional Lighting System, im not looking for the same dicussion i see on other blogs about Profoto being over priced and cheaper sets doing the trick. I have come to understand Profoto and Hensel are the best companies for pros, and the rest are for semi-pro/enthusiests. I have the money to spend, but i just want to make the right decision in doing so, and if i can save a few grand by not buying the absolutely highest end gear thats ok. I work with a Nikon D4 and the f/2.8 series of lenses, my speedlights arent up to par.</p>

<p>We shoot weddins primarily, and do portraits as a secondary income. You can see my work at Jon M Photography dot com. If you go to the life page you will see some different portraiture shots, and you will notice i need more power. I just started using off camera flash a year ago. I live and work at Lake Tahoe primarily, which offers a thin atmosphere which makes the sunlight more harsh, and also has the large lake in the background doubling the effect of the sun light with its reflection. My speedlights are barely strong enough at full power to act as a fill with the lake at the background.</p>

<p>I want to bring a high fashion style to both my weddings and family portraits.</p>

<p>The kicker is I love to ski in the winter and would love to do some high end shots of the racers and trick skiers, i want a light that will be powerful enough to overpower the sun and highlight the skiers, something you only see for professional athletes.<br /> So im looking for a 2 light setup. I have narrowed my search to hansel or profoto. I know the pro series of profoto allows you to control the speed of the light. What i dont know is if i need to be able to do that. The portraiture is my main focus, but the skiing shots are a big plus.</p>

<p>Will the acute2 series in profoto, or hensel gear allow me to do what i need. I am looking for a 1000w/s - 1200w/s system. I will use a beauty dish, and a 2ft softbox and 3ft softbox.</p>

<p>Thanks for the advice guys.<br /> Jonathan</p>

[robertbanks]

Actually Broncolor is considered the ultimate flash gear amongst pro fashion and portrait photographers.

Their Move system is lighter, smaller, more powerful, faster and more consistent than the near comparable Profoto B4,

but of course more expensive, and I understand their presence in the US is limited so maybe out of the question for you.

I used their previous version and they were the best lights I've ever used.

[michaelmowery]

<p>It would help to know what your spending budget is. Your needs are too broad for the purchase of the acute system only. If you narrow it to your money making needs the wedding then I would say the acute series is fine. After you make some big money to invest $12k into a freeze frame on location system then you can get the profoto pro series battery systems. My advice is save your money and just rent the high end stuff for the few times you would use it. Yes to invest in the acute series which will cost you just over 4K for a pack and two heads. I have profoto acute 1200 a/c packs and heads but I would not take it to a wedding where there is no respect for your equipment by workers or vendors. Dynalight is a tried and true system that works like a horse on location and is very light and easy to use. I use two 1000 packs and two heads and i supplement them with 2 profoto acuteb 600 battery set ups which I watch over like a hawk. Those battery pack and head will run you around $3k each. So again how much money do you have to spend and I can tailor a setup just for you. </p>

[phillips]

<p>Instead of the Acute series, you might consider the Profoto D! or D1 Air monolights. I think they're a better bet for location work and have plenty of power for studio/portrait use.</p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>Phil do you own the D1's and are speaking from experience? #1. they are too top heavy #2. flash duration is not a short #3. requires you to invest in the air sytem if you want to control your power. #4. Requires a vagabond or similar power source for location work. #5. clunky #6. I have a feeling Jonathan wants to use the next level up of pro equipment.</p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>Rereading your post Jonathan are you just looking for a battery pack option? Cause Profoto only makes the 600w/s Acute option. The 1000 w/s and 1,200 is the more expensive 7 and 8 series pro line. I personally think the 600w/s will meet your needs. I saw your website and what ever you used to light it looked about 1 1/2 stops shy of what would have been a great shot. So if it was a 200 w/s light then the 600 would be perfect. Distance between the flash and subject is your only factor that would determine if you really need the 1000 w/s option. The overpowering of the sun can be done with a speed light if you are able to increase the shutter speed beyond the flash sync speed. The are some techniques that Pocket wizard explains to be able to do this. In that case the power of the pack is not an issue. Determine your working distance, modifiers you will use and the f-stop and iso of choice. The more flexible you are on these the more options you will have.</p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

Broncolor, Elinchrom, Hensel, MultiBlitz, and Profoto are the top current European made brands. If you are intent on

spending that much money it will be hard to go wrong with the 1,200 watt-second battery systems from any of the above

brands. Each has something in its favor, but i have worked with all of them and in the end the real world operating and

light quality differences are very slight. But you may find one that is more suited to the way you work than the others.

[phillips]

<p>Michael, I have two of the D1's and two of the earlier Profoto compact. I have owned in the past an Acute 2R 2400 w/s three light setup which i used for architectural photography. I agree that the D1's are somewhat top heavy so for hair lights and such mounted on a boom I've used smaller and lighter monolights. The tradeoff is the freedom from large cords. I assumed you meant that the Profoto Air is required to remotely change the power-the Profoto D1 units do have power controls on the back of the head. If the location work is occasional it might be more economical to rent the power pack rather than buy.</p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>Good info Phil. Yes I was talking about air remote. What do you use the D1s for now? studio work? D1 is the cheapest way to get complete control over lighting or any mono light. The cheaper pack and head systems like acute or other brands will only allow at most a two stop difference between two heads attached. Mono lights are lights with separate packs with built in heads so light control between two mono lights is infinite. It is all about budget and your needs and most times wants, lol.</p>

[sheldonnalos]

<p>The 1100 watt second Elinchrom Ranger is probably the one of (if not the) most used battery pack for outdoor action wintersports photography. It also will do great for weddings and any sort of location shooting. Extremely rugged, weatherproof, and powerful.</p>

<p>Elinchrom modifiers are also excellent, the Deep Octas are great for portraits, the big EL Octa is one of the top fashion lights, and their HP Sport and Maxilite metal reflectors are ideal for that "overpower the sun" or action sports style of shooting you are discussing. </p>

<p>I'd give that system a very serious look. I've personally been very happy with it. </p>

[jonathan_menezes]

<p>Thank you Sheldon, I actually talked to a guy at a camera shop and got a lot of great info after i posted this. He suggested Elinchrom as well, that on top of reading a few of these responses seems to be a great option. I do have a desire to go with profoto still, but it seems that would make more sense if i was going with the pro series instead of the acute. One thing that is hard to swallow with the profoto though is the price of their accessories, it helps that Elinchrom diffusors are around 250 whereas profotos are upwards of 750.</p>

<p>The kit i would put together for elinchrom would probably be the Ranger AS battery, 2 Ranger Free Lite A Heads, a beauty dish, large softbox, and the remotes. I think i can get that for around 4-5k.</p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>sounds good Jonathan I am glad you are doing your own research.</p>

[jonathan_menezes]

<p>Ok Guys, i just got a new spin on things. After all this research and talking to people, im finally feeling like i can wrap my head around things.</p>

<p>Here is my thought and options. <br>

Elinchrom Setup<br />Ranger RX Speed AS Battery $1800<br />Ranger Freelite A Flash $1800<br />Beauty Dish $275<br />Softbox Octabox 39" $315<br>

Need Tranciever, unsure if my PW will work<br>

Total $4190<br>

I just discovered the Batpack by Profoto, I like this option because i can buy the D1 lights, and build up to the higher end power supplies<br>

Profoto Setup<br>

Batpac $1830<br />D1 Air 1000W/s $1750<br />Beauty Dish $390<br />3x4 Softbox $285<br />Transceiver $225<br>

Total $4480<br>

I can buy additional Heads as i go, and eventually a B4 Battery if needed.<br>

What are your guys thoughts?</p>

 

[phillips]

<p>I only use the D1s and the Compacts only for studio work . Anything I do outside which requires added illumination is handled by my SB 910 and SB 600- as a retiree I'm not going to haul a boatload of lighting gear. Jonathan, the big point to me is the need to balance your needs with desires and budget. Going back to your original post you say "I want to bring a high fashion style to both my weddings and family portraits". If you start with that and look at the options mentioned in the previous posts any of them could satisfy that requirement from an equipment standpoint though there are differences of convenience and cost within that desire. If your budget allows the higher priced options with controllable speed, great. As a skier, multiple light setups with fast moving subjects, not all of which are determinable I think will be a real challenge-you might want to start using Nkon speedlights with either CLS or Pocket Wizards(TT1/TT5). </p>

[jonathan_menezes]

My budget can go up to 10k. But I would like

spending 5k a lot better.

 

I am currently using two sb700s. The are

fine during certain conditions. I use a 24x24

softbox. I want to go larger and add a

beauty dish. I just broke one of my

receivers. So instead of continuing to put

money into a system I'm not satisfied with

I'd rather jump to better gear that won't limit me.

 

What's your thought on the batpac option I gave earlier?

[ellis_vener_photography]

Your PocketWizards will work just fine, even the PW ControlTL gear.

[jonathan_menezes]

<p>this conversation has seemed to fizzle, i started a new one that discusses the batpac option specifically. heres the link.<br>

http://www.photo.net/photography-lighting-equipment-techniques-forum/00bwD6</p>

<p>Thanks for the help everyone.<br>

Jon</p>

[sheldonnalos]

<p>Sorry for the delayed response... but I'll chime in on a couple things related to Elinchrom, just random thoughts in no particular order. </p>

<p>I think of the Rangers as a single light pack. You can add two heads, but the ratio between heads is fixed so they are a lot less flexible. I'd say get just one pack and supplement with other lights, or go full out and get two packs. </p>

<p>I use the Skyport system, triggering has been good for me in real world shooting and I like having remote power adjustments. You can hook up regular Pocketwizards if you like as a standard sync. Skip the PowerST4 system, range was crap on those when I tried them. </p>

<p>Beauty dish is nice, but consider the 27.5" Deep Octa as an alternative. I've got a Mola Demi beauty dish and I never use it, always end up grabbing the baby deep octa instead. Awesome light, and more location friendly. The 39" Deep Octa is great as well, but a bit bigger. I love how easily the Rotalux boxes from Elinchrom set up. The 16" Maxilite reflector is also cheap and very well regarded. </p>

<p>Consider buying used, if you can. Check Fred Miranda.com and Photography-on-the.net, since Elinchrom gear will come through there. With a little patience you could get a Ranger plus 1 head for around $1250-1500. </p>

<p><br />Let me know if you've got other questions, I'm familiar with and have used most of the stuff in the Elinchrom lineup. </p>

 

[mark_schafer1]

<p>My general advise is usually always Profoto. They have an established line of equipment and a big rental base. Nearly all big rental houses and studios in the USA (and larger international cities) stock a significant amount of gear (for their market) and accessories as well as adapters. Having said that, i strongly suggest to rent and test the Acute 600B kit as well as the Pro battery kits. Once the dust settles with all the other european and US brands, it comes down to reliability, repeatability and (for me at least) short flash duration for sharp pictures. Rent a Bron Acute and a D4 (plus whatever else you consider), set it at the same power than a Profoto Pro7/8 and shoot someone jump rope. Nice simple test.</p>

<p>Now that we have the lighting power set, i move toward light formers. I would look at Profoto (and really like their hard reflectors), but personally prefer my Elinchrom Octabank and Photek Softlighters for people that have to look nice and flattering. Chimera makes very reliable and consistent soft boxes, we recently started playing around with their "new" Beauty dish. And while we're here, have a look at Mola reflectors. Genius for a larger light source when the wind picks up (and all big umbrellas collapse) and a fantastic and beautiful light output.</p>

<p>My personal choice: Pro 7/8, Acute 600B; Profoto Zoom, Magnum, white 42" umbrella, EL Octa, Photek umbrellas, Mola Demi, Euro, Chimera Pro II white, Matthews silks and muslin (8x8, 12x12), Canon 1DX, L primes.</p>

<p>I suggest all this with full disregard of budget or other constrains, like portability, weight, etc. A great picture is worth fighting for. Nobody said it's easy...</p>

[timothy_skidmore]

What did you end up getting?

 

I have 4 D1s which I love for indoor location shoots. 2 rangers packs with 2 heads (someone mentioned power was

equal if on the same pack. It isn't if you get the AS one. It's 2-1.) and 3 elinchrom monolights. Also have the acute 2400.

 

I would have recommended the rangers or looking at the Profotos B1. I like my D1's too much to be taking them outside.

My ranger pack had a 40 oz pop dumped on it the first day. Glad it is weather sealed. Rangers are the only

lights going outside. They are my background lights in the studio setting.

 

Love Air, but elinchrom sky port works fine. Capture one works great with Profoto's Air too. Acute does not have Air, need d4

for that.

 

Studio shooting is a toss up as I enjoy both for different reasons. If I'm using umbrellas the d1 is ready to go with built in reflector. I would recommend sticking with one system, but I obviously didn't.