EOS 70D announced!

[Marcus Ian]

<blockquote>

<p>Based on the lack of competition Canon has. The Nikon D300(s) is a very old camera now...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I would argue that the minority of buyers, who would consider a 7D2, are concerned with Nikon's offerings. I'd say that many, if not most, serious 7D users recognize the value of the lenses in their photographic endeavors, as such, most do not 'flip-flop' brands everytime a new camera is released. Those who can easily (financially speaking) are often beyond the appeal of any 'middle' camera. Afterall, not <em>all</em> of us have dumped our 5s to buy D800s ;-)</p>

<p>No, I think this is a good placement for an upgrade to the 60D, and a good indicator of what we should expect to see from the 7D2 when (not if) it arrives. Based on this release, I'd expect the following key features. AF module upgrade (to something like what the 5D3 uses), HS FPS bumped to ~9-10, a nice deep buffer (please god!), the same sensor (or indistinguishable at any rate) as the 70D, a metal body ;-) (w/ no flappy LCD), probably dual procs (or at least better than the single 5+ - prob at least a 4 for just the AF, and a 5+/6 for a main), maybe even (hopefully) dual card slots, maybe even f8 AF. With this feature set, a) it would be a significant upgrade for current 7D users, b) appealing for pro shooters, especially those needing speed and wanting format flexibility (which is no longer an option in the 1D line), c) worth it to buy it over the 70D. Frankly, that feature set would allow Canon to charge almost the same as a 6D, especially since it targets completely different shooting styles/demands.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that a 'pro' APS-C camera is something that Canon now needs to maintain (especially since they've done away w/ the 1D's APS-H). They are going to need something that is durable enough to keep up w/ pro-shooters (and, having seen plastic, and metal bodies fail, I can say that metal bodies are more durable), w/ the added length that APS-C those shooters. Frankly, as good as the 1Dx is, it gets very hard to pull extreme reach out of an 18MP FF sensor, and exponentially harder the longer reach you need. </p>

[keith reeder]

<p>Yeah, I'm in the same mind about the miniaturisation of DSLR bodies - I've got big hands and sausage fingers, and need the real estate. I always add a battery grip to my bodies, just so that some of my fingers have somewhere to sit.</p>

<p>And not "using up" your D300 is an excellent way to put this - I certainly haven't used up my 7D yet (and I admit to being someone who has been known to want the next <strong>New Shiny Thing</strong> coming over the horizon) because for me it still does everything I might reasonably want from a camera, and the results I get speak for themselves, I think (bearing in mind my humble "enthusiast" status - although I do get approached by people who want to buy some of my efforts).</p>

<p>Certainly I don't miss shots that I feel I would've got with a "better" camera; and I've never had any anxieties about the image quality the 7D provides.</p>

<p>We're lucky to feel this way, aren't we?</p>

[keith reeder]

<p><em>What Marcus said...</em><br /> <br />I'm likely to be very interested in 7D Mk II when (or more likely a while after) it's released; not because of its relevance to the competing Nikon, if such a thing even exists by that time, but because - if it has features that will improve my photography - it will make my pictures better.<br /><br />No more, no less than that - and I believe that a 7D Mk II will come <em>because Canon knows people will buy it</em>; and ultimately that's why Canon exists.</p>

[paddler4]

<blockquote>

<p>I'm likely to be very interested in 7D Mk II when (or more likely a while after) it's released; not because of its relevance to the competing Nikon, if such a thing even exists by that time, but because - if it has features that will improve my photography - it will make my pictures better.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I agree. I shoot with a 50D, and I think I have reached the point where I would benefit from an upgrade--in particular, better AF and, I hope, a bit less high-ISO noise. Most of the new features of the 70D don't interest me, but the fact that Canon is clearly still investing in APS-C is encouraging, and I hope there is a replacement for the 7D. We'll see.</p>

[David_Cavan]

<p>What Dan M said. I shoot with 50D as well, and I think I'm pushing the envelope in some ways on a camera with about 140K shutter actions - I can certainly wait for the 7D strategy to unfold, and will.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Heck I just recently bought my 50D. Plenty of pixies dancing on the head of the sensor for me and my telephotos; uses batteries that I have a large supply of; not to mention CF cards too. I could even use my old battery grip that I got years ago for my 20D if I want to.</p>

<p> </p>

[francisco_salaquanda]

<p>Maybe we are seeing some growing resistance to the endless minor upgrades which undermine the used prices of perfectly good cameras.<br>

I was talking to Jamie Fawcett a year ago at an exhibition. Now nobody denies the fact that he is the bad boy in the pap community. And he has been doing tough long shots of celebrities around the world for 30 years. He would need similar features to a sports photographer.<br>

So what does he use? Two 40D bodies and he saves the images as jpegs. He has to get it right in camera as he does not have time to do any post beyond cropping etc. And even then there often is no time for that.</p>

<p>Why a 40D given todays plethora of choice. He says that the 40D produces the best IQ jpegs of any camera he has used. And if he breaks one he can buy another for $350. His money goes to lenses.</p>

[keith reeder]

<blockquote>

<p>So what does he use? Two 40D bodies and he saves the images as jpegs. He has to get it right in camera as he does not have time to do any post beyond cropping etc. And even then there often is no time for that.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I have no clue who or what a "Jamie Fawcett" is - a US pap, I presume - but the statement above probably says more about the relatively low quality expectations of pap photography than it does about the supposed relentless drive to upgrade forced upon us by camera manufacturers.</p>

<p>Which isn't to criticise the 40D - still got one myself - but frankly I don't hold pap photography as any sort of exemplar of quality photography, or the gear decisions of some random pap 'tog to be any indication of informed decision-making in a wider photographic context.</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>Interesting new release. Especially interesting in that it's generated so much 7D Upgrade wishes.</p>

<p>The Marcus Ian feature 'wish list' is a perfect mirror for what many on the Nikon forum have been wanting from the never-to-appear D400....the D300S upgrade that didn't happen.</p>

<p> A proper fast, tough, Pro, DX camera.......Sadly, Nikon doesn't believe there's a market for them..:-( </p>

<p> Maybe Canon does...:-)</p>

[keith reeder]

<p>I'm still sure that there will be a D400, Mike - the D300/s was a hugely successful camera (and rightly so) and Nikon can't be so naive as to assume that the market for a D300 upgrade no longer exists.</p>

<p>I actually think it likely that Canon and Nikon are each waiting for the other to make the first move, so that - once the competitor shows its hand - the other can quickly go into production with whichever of their prototypes' specifications trumps the opposition's camera.</p>

<p>And I think that this is happening because both companies fully recognise the importance of this market segment and are each desperate to be Top Dog.</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>+1 Keith. Oddly many are putting the huge time 'gap' after the D300S to mean there is no intention to replace it and that the D7100 is at the Top now and the D7*** series is the only future.</p>

<p>I fully agree with the 'first-to-blink' scenario. As someone further up mentioned, not many people have the cash to jump ship, with lenses being worth so much more than bodies, pro rata, it's financially a no-no. </p>

<p>The upshot is that people have to wait for either Canon or Nikon to show their hand. Patience is hard on the Technophile!</p>

[nico_morris]

<p>How about I run this past you lot as an evolutionary replacement for the 7D this year, whatever it will be called? Leveraging current Canon technology to keep retooling production costs down. Do you think people would buy such a thing debuting at the same price the 7D did, or does it need more video goodies?:<br>

20.2 MP CMOS Sensor (like 70D)<br /> Dual DIGIC 5+ (2x 70D)<br /> 61 Point AF + 41 Crosstype AF (like 5DIII)<br /> 100% viewfinder frame coverage with 1.0× magnification (7D)<br /> 8 frames per second continuous shooting, large RAW buffer (7D)<br /> Built-in Wi-Fi (like 70D)<br /> ISO 12,800 maximum (25,600 expanded) – compare to 6,400 (12,800 expanded) on 60D (like 70D)<br /> One CF UDMA compatible slot, One SD/SDHC/SDXC slot, fully exploiting UHS-I speed class<br /> 63 zone color sensitive metering system (like 5DIII)<br /> built-in Speedlite transmitter (7D)<br /> Magnesium alloy body (7D)<br /> Popup flash (7D)<br /> Weather sealing (7D) ... 3.2-inch (81 mm)LCD with 3:2 aspect ratio (like 5DIII)</p>

[tom_burke3]

<p>I am a 60D owner, having bought it last September to replace a 500D (T1i). I think I'm committed to APS-C cameras into the future - I can't see myself spending the money to change both my camera *and* my lenses, even though I accept that a full-frame camera would give me better IQ in certain circumstances (e.g. large prints) - so obviously the 70D is a camera that interests me.</p>

<p>It certainly looks like a decent upgrade to the 60D in pretty much all respects. However, in the absence (at the moment) of detailed reviews and samples, I don't think I see a killer 'must have' upgrade. That said, I don't shoot video or use live view much so this new dual-focus malarkey, which is probably the really new thing, is something that doesn't affect me; other people who do do these things may well see this as a genuine 'must have' that justifies an upgrade, especially if it is genuinely effective.</p>

<p>But I probably won't switch, certainly not at the current price. That said, I'm not criticising the camera at all - I think it hits the required market spot well, is a significant upgrade to the 60D, and it would be a good buy for someone not already owning a camera in that spot.</p>

[zensphoto]

<p>I have a 60D I got back in August of 2011. The 70D has some very interesting new features the new APS-C sensor size is nice to see it over 18Mpix at last. But with all the nice things it has, I will continue to shoot my 60D until I am ready to have the shutter replaced and will look and see what Canon has in another year or so. <br /><br />If I was Canon and I'm definitely not Canon. I would dump the 7D, since I already have a full frame 6D. The next release is probably going to be a new EOS M MarK II. The current EOS M is going for 299.00 this weekend at BH Video. Eliminate the 7D keep the 6D, the 70D is the new of the new. Can't wait to see what the 80D looks like.</p>

[joseph_wisniewski]

<p>Nikon and Canon are dancing around each other, and both are stumbling. They sort of had things interleaved.</p>

<ul>

<li>Nikon D80, D90</li>

<li>Canon 40D, 50D</li>

<li>Nikon D200, D300</li>

</ul>

<p>Canon decided Nikon "had it right" and cheapened the 60D to be more like D90, and added a premium 7D more like D300.</p>

<p>Pretty much at the same time, Nikon decided Canon had it right, and merged the D90 and D300 classes into D7000, more like the "pre 60D/7D" 50D.</p>

<p>Now, it appears Canon decided they were right from the beginning, and pimped out the 70D so it's more like a pre-D60 midline, and Nikon appears to be quite happy just the way they are. Don't hold your breath waiting for 7D II or D400. We might see Nikon fix the D7100 buffer (ram is pretty cheap) but that's about it.</p>

<ul>

<li>D3xxx = xxxxD</li>

<li>D5xxx = xxxD</li>

<li>D7xxx = xxD</li>

<li>D600 = 6D</li>

<li>D800 = 5D III</li>

<li>D4 = 1Dx</li>

</ul>

<p>Sure, there are some big philosophical differences, like D800 resolution vs. 5D III video, or Canon's electronic first curtain across the whole line, but basically, the two companies are now at parity. I can't help feeling that this is not a good thing.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>Pretty much at the same time, Nikon decided Canon had it right, and merged the D90 and D300 classes into D7000, more like the "pre 60D/7D" 50D.<br>

Now, it appears Canon decided they were right from the beginning, and pimped out the 70D so it's more like a pre-D60 midline, and Nikon appears to be quite happy just the way they are. Don't hold your breath waiting for 7D II or D400. We might see Nikon fix the D7100 buffer (ram is pretty cheap) but that's about it.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Finally we have someone who knows what he/she is talking about.</p>

<p>I would say both Canon and Nikon were right to have a 7D and D200/D300-class DSLRs, but the final entries for that class of DSLRs were introduced in 2009, with the 7D and D300S, respectively. In other words, for Canon, the 7D was the first as well as final entry.</p>

<p>Three years after that, both Canon and Nikon introduced their first "affordable" full-35mm-frame DSLRs in the 6D and D600 within days in 2012, which took over the price range previously occupied by the 7D and D300S. When Nikon merged the D90 and D300S into the D7000 back in 2010, they clearly already has all of this planned out.</p>

<p>And yes, there is head-on, very direct competition between Canon and Nikon among all classes of DSLRs. Also absent from both brands is the follow ups to the $8000 category. After the 1Ds, 1Ds Mark II and 1Ds Mark III, I certainly don't see any 1Ds Mark 4 coming. Neither will there be any follow up to the Nikon D3X. At $3000 initially and a bit lower now, the 36MP Nikon D800 (and Canon 5D Mark III) eliminates that $8000 category.</p>

[bill_gregory]

<p>Just saw a video released by Canon. Quite Impressive.</p>

[pbalko]

<blockquote>

<p>Just saw a video released by Canon. Quite Impressive.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Link?</p>

[dogbert]

<blockquote>Why? Do you want to use it to hammer in nails? Have you ever had a "plastic" body fail on you (i.e. the body, not the camera)? Has anyone had their plastic bodied 60D fall apart?</blockquote>

<p>Metal feels nice to hold and ages well. These days I am looking for a camera to last 5 years or more. Every plastic body I have had has looked scratched, worn and cheap within a few years. My 8 year old 5D now looks in better condition than my 2 year old 60D. As companies make cameras in metal and not just plastic clearly others feel the same way.</p>

[nico_morris]

<p>It is hard to collect data on knocks because people will not want to admit it under warranty. To suggest however that metal bodies or chassis are there only for the sake of consumer confidence with no other benefit than to charge more, can be seen as just another type of conspiracy theory. One which both Canon and Nikon take part in.</p>

[keith reeder]

<blockquote>

<p>Finally we have someone who knows what he/she is talking about.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Really? Based on what?</p>

<p>I strongly suspect Joseph's comments - and your supporting follow-up - are just as speculative and based on gut-feeling as any post taking a different view, and therefore <em>exactly</em> as likely to be right - or wrong.</p>

<p>In short, none of us <em>know</em> what we're talking about when it comes to what Canon is going to do next, and that includes Joseph and you, Shun.</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>There probably <em><strong>are</strong> </em>some individuals 'on here' that <em><strong>do</strong></em> know what they're talking about...but they can't tell anyone!</p>

<p>...but that's not entirely the same thing.....is it?:-)</p>

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>Really? Based on what?<br>

I strongly suspect Joseph's comments - and your supporting follow-up - are just as speculative and based on gut-feeling as any post taking a different view, and therefore <em>exactly</em> as likely to be right - or wrong.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Keith, I can't read Joseph's mind, but as far as I can tell, Joseph's comments are based on his observation of what Canon has done so far, i.e. existing facts, which give us clues of what Canon's future plans are. I share those same observations. In fact, Nikon has made very similar moves as Canon.</p>

<p>Up to the 50D, introduced in 2008, the 10D, 20D ... 50D product line used to be Canon's top APS-C DSLRs at $1200 to $1400. In 2009 Canon added the 7D, which became the new top APS-C DSLR at a higher price point. The 60D, introduced in 2010, is purposely designed to lower specs to have a greater product differentiation from the 7D: e.g. AF micro adjust was gone, the burst rate when down, and most importantly, the price went down to $1100, below the introductory prices for the earlier models.</p>

<p>Look at the 70D, AF micro adjust is back, the burst rate went back up and even exceeds that for the 50D, AF is greatly improved with the AF system in the 7D, and the $1200 price level is restored to match the price for the Nikon D7100. To me, it is very clear that product differentiation from the 7D line above is no longer necessary. I.e., no 7D Mark II.</p>

<p>Nikon made similar moves back in 2010 with the D7000. At $1200, it was higher than the D70, D70S, D80, and D90, all introduced at $1000 but below the D200 and D300 at $1700/$1800. Prior to the D7000, Nikon never had a DSLR that could meter with old AI/AI-S lenses below the D200/D300 level. Now that even the D7000 has already been updated to the D7100, which has better AF than even the D300/D300S. There is insufficient room for a higher model. Nikon Canada and USA are more direct; they openly call the D7100 their flagship DX (APS-C) DSLR.</p>

<p>I make the call there will be no 7D Mark II and D400 (as a successor to the Nikon D300s) based on my observations of the prices and features for the 6D/70D for Canon and D600/D7100 for Nikon. Currently, DSLRs is not exactly an expanding market. There is simply not enough room for so many DSLR entries between $1000 and $2000 from each brand. To me, it is very obvious that both Canon and Nikon see the same market conditions and therefore make almost identical adjustments to their product lines.</p>

<p>Nikon introduced the D3 and D300 simultaneously on August 23, 2007. In 2009, they both had a small upgrade in 2009 to the D3S and D300S, respectively. Even though full-35mm-frame DSLRs typically have a longer product cycle, Nikon already replaced the D3/D3S with the D4 in January, 2012. That was a year and half ago. Meanwhile, pundits have been predicting the D300S' successor, usually referred to as the "D400," since 2009/2010. By now, it is like 2, 3 years over due, but people still recycle the same prediction year after year. I wonder how long it'll take before they realize that it is not going to happen. But of course, as long as these rumors generate traffic to their web sites, people will continue to make them and profit from it, until nobody believes it any more.</p>

<p>Likewise, we can continue to talk about this future "7D Mark II" for a few more years to come.</p>

<p>But maybe Joseph and I are completely wrong. Time will tell.</p>

[phule]

<p>[[These days I am looking for a camera to last 5 years or more. Every plastic body I have had has looked scratched, worn and cheap within a few years.]]</p>

<p>How does the exterior of the camera change how the camera works? I have a 7 year old DSLR that looks well used on the outside and still continues to take photos</p>

[simon_hickie1]

<p>The D7100 currently £849 in UK, against 70D pre-order price of £1079. I can't see that if one has already invested in one system that there's anything worth switching for. If you need something now and are not locked into any system, the 70D is not yet available.</p>