Alternative to Canon 600EX RT

[jeremy_wakefield]

<p>Hi<br /> I'm investing in a Canon 5D mk3 to complement a 5D mk2 shortly. I will be looking to get hold of some Speedlites or equivalent. I've used 580EX IIs in the past and fired them wirelessly both in manual and ful ETTL mode.<br>

I am baulking at the idea of paying the cash for the above model and I'm tempted to try third party flashes such as those in the Nissin range. I am considering something like their Di866 professional model and wonder if this would offer the reliability of the Canon flash and what the shortcomings are likely to be.<br>

<br /> I shoot portraits and weddings and use flash mainly off camera and/or for fill. Reliable wireless firing both in manual and ETTL mode are important to me<br>

<br /> All advice will be gratefully received.<br>

<br /> Thanks</p>

[mbkissel]

<p>Hi William,<br>

I haven't used them, so I can't advise you on the Nissin flashes; I'll defer to others who know this flash. If you are looking for "Reliable wireless firing...", you'd be hard-pressed to find anything more reliable than the 600EX-RT. I have used two of these with a 5DIII for shooting weddings and portraiture with terrific results. Pricey, yes. Works, yes. Reliable, yes. Pricey, (did I mention that already?), yes! </p>

<p>So if you do decide on the Canon system, also keep in mind that not only will you need the flashes, you will need the ST-E3-RT transmitter unless you want to keep one 600 on the camera's hotshoe. So there's another expense, since I assume you will not be using a flash on the camera for your intended purposes.</p>

<p>Again, although it's a pricey system, it just plain works great. Even better reliability than using Pocket Wizards IMHO. Plus you get a tremendous amount of flexibility and control (right from the camera) with the 600s. Take a close look before you dismiss them. And heat up the checkbook.</p>

[jeremy_wakefield]

<p>Thanks for your response, Mark. I know there might really only be one answer in the end but the Nissins do seem to be pretty solid performers from what I've read. Don't know if I'm deluding myself mind you. </p>

<p>The other concern I have about the 600 EX RTs is that while I am buying a mk3 which I'm sure they would work with flawlessly, I also use a 5Dmk2 which I understand would be problematic with that flash in terms of max sync speed and possibly some other areas.</p>

<p>Sigh! Decisions decisions !</p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>you are putting to much thought into this. The 580ex II are just as good. Before spending the money on a 600ex-rt I would get studio strobes like alien bees or einstiens. </p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>Give me the cheapest speed light and I can create the same images that a $600 speed light can do. If you want reliability then shoot manual mode. Any brand of flash offers this 100% reliability. Don't get caught up in all the hype. lol</p>

[jeremy_wakefield]

<p>Michael I don't own 580EXIIs. I'm not thinking of upgrading from them and I just need a flash that works for me. I could shoot a wedding in manual with some flashes off camera and some on but it wouldn't make my job very easy when people are changing position, distance, location etc<br>

I already have studio lights but this isn't anything to do with my current question ( unless the Alien bees or Einsteins are different from what I understand - they aren't really available here in the UK anyway )</p>

<p>My concern is that on the rare occasion when I wanted to bounce the other flashes are not as versatile because they don't swivel fully as do the 580 EX IIs or 600 EX RTs.</p>

<p>The 580EX II s are not easy to locate at a reasonable price and hence my interest in 3rd party</p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>My point was any flash will do. If you like Nission then go for it. You don't have to spend the high price that cannon charges just because its the latest and greatest. They want you to keep spending the money. The equipment does not make the photographer as you have heard. I just said 580exII cause it has the ettl and works great and is less than the latest flash. <br /> As far as shooting in manual..I have done this for many years with much success and reliability. It just takes some practice. If you have a zoom lense it makes it even easier. All you do is pick a distance say eight feet and you shoot all your candids at that distance. You use your zoom to get tighter shots and all exposures are consistent. If people move closer to you all you have to do is step back. The other thing is turn off flash head zoom as that will change your exposure each time you zoom in or out. I cant tell you how many times the ettl has let me down with underexposed shots for some and overexposed shots for others. As you get more seasoned you will come to appreciate having total control over you shots and less on automated point and shoot.</p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>sorry that i advised you on studio strobes for you portraits as you did not mention you had any. You said you shoot portraits and weddings making it sound like you use speed lights for both. It sounds like you already have your mind made up anyways. good luck.</p>

[fotografz]

<p>Hmmm, how are other flashes the same as the new 600 EX RTs? As far as I know they are the only integrated radio controlled speed-lights if you have a 5D-III. One off-camera for key and one on-camera as fill is an ideal speed-light configuration for mobile wedding work. Separate radio units are just another possible thing to go wrong, need separate batteries, or you can't use an on-camera flash for fill without losing TTL control over the remote speed-light with most pass-through TTL radio units with a hot-shoe.</p>

<p>It is about time that someone integrated them into the flash unit itself, and Canon did it first. Nikon and Sony needs to do this also. IMO, it is a key reason to own a 5D-III.</p>

<p> </p>

[jeremy_wakefield]

<p>The 600 EX RTs are certainly very useful looking tools for the 5Dmk3 but I have read that they don't work so well with the older Canon cameras. They don't sync very quickly - I believe at around 1/100s which is pretty poor - and I'm not sure if they do HSS. If this is wrong can someone please correct me.<br>

I'm concerned about this because I still use my 5D mk2 a lot and if the above is correct I'd prefer the 580 EX IIs which are proving difficult to locate at a reasonable price.</p>

<p>However if I do go for the 580s, another question arises: whether an STE2 would trigger the 580s from a 5Dmk3 or not. Does anyone know the answer to this?</p>

[fotografz]

<p>The Canon 5D-III and 600 EX RTs are also inferred capable. Presumably this means you can mix older 508EX-IIs with the 600 EX RTs if you use the Inferred setting. </p>

<p>Curious where you read that the sync speed is only 1/100 with older Canon cameras? How old? As far as I know, the camera determines sync speed, and all of the more contemporary 5 series cameras feature HSS when used with a HSS capable Canon Speed-lights ... so it would be interesting to read the source of this information.</p>

<p>BTW, I do not own any Canon gear, but think the 1DX is perhaps the most well thought out 35mm DSLR Pro camera ever designed ... IMO.</p>

<p>- Marc</p>

<p> </p>

[jeremy_wakefield]

<p>Hi Mark<br>

I have downloaded the 600 EX manual and it appears that the sync speed issue occurs when using optical wireless on older cameras. ( P 51 of the manual in the wireless shooting section ) I take it that, when mounted on the hot shoe it works as in any other camera.</p>

<p>Having clarified this I would guess that the limitation is in the optical wireless fucntion of this flash rather than anything else. People will doubtless correct me if I have this wrong.</p>

[wilko_van_den_bergh]

<p>I own three Nissin Di866 mark II flashes.<br>

Although they aren't nearly as expensive as the Canon 600 EX, they give a pretty decent amount of light, can use Canon TTL and HSS, have a swivel head and are very simple and straightforward to use. <br>

I don't have a 600 EX to compare it with, but when compared to a 580 EX, I think they are sightly less robustly built. For less than half the price of a 580 EX I don't mind that, though.</p>

[eric_duncan3]

<p>Hi William,</p>

<p>I shoot with a 7D (and am considering a 5DMkIII, too). I second Wilko's positive experience with the Nissin Di866 MkII. I have two, with two more just ordered. I also paired them with Yongnuo's very compact and unobtrusive YN-622C 2.4GHz TTL radio transceiver, which are amazing value for money at about $85 (US) or about £55 (UK) per PAIR! They look good, and they integrate seamlessly with the 7D's in-camera flash control menu and the Di866II. They support high-speed flash sync, and the ability to set the flash power level in-camera, in manual mode, for remote flashes independently in up to 3 flash groups (and you can have multiple flashguns in each group). They also work flawlessly in ETTL-II mode, and the 2.4GHz wireless radio link puts the range and signal reliability on a par with the 600EX-RT, for about half the cost. Build quality is not up to that of the Canon flagship flash, but neither is it flimsy. And the YN-622C attaches to the Di866II via a metal hotshoe, rather than being integral to the flashgun. But the 622 is small and nicely styled, so this is not really a disadvantage (in my opinion).<br>

And as transceivers, the YN-622 units are interchangeable between camera and flash. This, plus the excellent price point, means that it is easy to have a flexible back-up set-up, for high-pressure event photography such as wedding shoots, where equipment failure without a back-up, is not an option.<br>

Alternatively, you can use the Di866II flashguns with their built-in infrared wireless capability, but the YN-622s offer radio transmission, with up to about 100m range, and without the line-of-sight constraints of infrared wireless.<br>

I have been very happy with this wireless off-camera flash set-up, with my 7D. I had also considered Yongnuo's YN568 flashgun. But the Di866II is simply more powerful, on a par with the light output of the 580EXII and 600 EX-RT.</p>

[jeremy_wakefield]

<p>Thank you very much for your detailed response Eric and thank you also for yours Wilko.<br>

I am still considering my best options but this information is helpful to me</p>

[eric_duncan3]

<p>Thanks William; I'm glad you found my comments useful.<br>

I will be interested to know which solution you ultimately adopt. Although as already stated, I am very pleased with the Di866II / YN622c set-up with my 7D, the 600EX-RT is admittedly very tempting, especially complementing an investment in a 5DMk2 and 5DMk3!</p>