TravelWide 4x5 portable camera project launched!

[larry kellogg]

<p>Hit submit twice by accident.</p>

[nbg90455]

<p>Larry- thanks!<br>

Yeah, since the camera won't be delivered until December, and I have trip in June to Germany & Turkey, my Kodak Medalist II will have to do (zero chance of getting the permission to take a tripod instead of diapers etc. along :) )</p>

[larry kellogg]

<p>Mike,<br>

Cool about your trip! I just so happen to be working for a company run by some Turkish people. A bunch of them are in Istanbul at the moment. I'm sure they would be happy to provide travel advice. Are you going as part of a tour? Where in Turkey are you going?</p>

[nbg90455]

<p>Larry -- thanks. It's a family vacation, so we'll be hanging out at a beach in Belek (near Antalya), but there should also be some time for ruins in Side or Perge...</p>

[bms]

<p>For someone who only gets his LF out on rare occasion due to its size, but already in possession of a 90 mm .. for $99 I am in.</p>

[bob_eskridge2]

<p>This a a great idea that I have been following for a while. I already use Mamiya flattop with the 65mm lens and a homemade 5X7 with a Kodak 135/6.3 Widefield in helical focus. This 4X5 may the the best of the bunch.<br>

I just ordered one!</p>

 

[larry kellogg]

<p>I'm happy to see that so many can join. They're over halfway there now. People still need to keep spreading the word, though.</p>

[john_robison3]

<p>I'm in. Even if I only us it for a 4X5 pinhole camera it is less than half the price of a Harman Titan. (Yeah, I know, you get some DP paper and film with the Titan.) Still, I watch with interest. Hope they make their goal.</p>

[mark_l6]

<p>Larry, I certainly do understand Kickstarter and think it's so good I'm looking to use it to finance a project of my own.<br>

However you are mistaken if you think they will be supplying 750 cameras for their $75,000 (assuming they reach their target). Try adding up what people get for their pledges, it does not add up to anything like 750 cameras. After all some of the pledges get a camera plus lens for much more than $99, others get a camera for $49, others just get a photo taken with the camera.<br>

The numbers fascinate me, I wonder how many new 4x5 cameras are sold worldwide in a year. In fact I wonder if it adds up to 750? If not they are expanding the large format community hugely which can only be a good thing. Also how many 90mm angulons come up on Ebay in one year. I bet it's nothing like 750. so where are all these old lenses going to come from. A quick check on Ebay shows a grand total of TWO for sale right now WORLDWIDE. Maybe I should buy every one that comes up and corner the market, could do well when the production cameras go out to their new owners. (only joking......).<br>

My main reaction to this, and I am positive about it, make no mistake, is that this could boost the amount of 4x5 film used and therefore help make producing film a viable activity, which will help all of us in the large format community.</p>

[larry kellogg]

<p>Mark, <br /> Out of the current number of backers, 394, 363 of them will be receiving cameras. A few of them will be receiving two cameras. There are only 7 people who are signed up to receive a print, and there are no takers at the higher philanthropic levels. Sure, it would be great if someone wrote a big check to help them out but that looks doubtful.<br /><br /> They're 63% of the way towards meeting their goal. In order to get from $47,473 to $75,000, they need to sell 278 more $99 cameras, to total 641. So, ok, not 750, but 641, I'm off by 15%, not that much. I think they'll exceed their goal, based on the reasonable purchase price and the excitement over the project. Good for them.<br /><br /> As has been stated many times, the camera works with more than just the 90mm Angulon f/6.8. The Super Angulon f/8 will also work, although the camera will be a little more nose heavy. For other lenses than the Angulon, people will have to adjust the focus marker but it's no big deal, and instructions will be provided. There were thousands of 90mm lenses produced in the last 60 years. I think the majority of people who have pledged already have a lens. I sourced one just last week. <br /><br /> Also, 30% of the people probably want to shoot the 65mm version and some will do pinhole, so that will lessen the demand for the 90mm lenses. eBay only needs to provide about 20 lenses a month for the new pledgers to get a 90mm lens, a reasonable expectation.<br /><br /> If there turns out to be huge demand for the camera that outstrips the supply of 90mm lenses, doubtful, then the designers could produce a version of the camera with a lens. I think they said it would add $50 to the cost of each camera to do that.<br /><br /> I absolutely agree with you that this project will help boost film sales, a great thing for all of us in the large format community.</p>

[john_robison3]

<p>I think most of these cameras won't be used with the suggested lens. I am an inveterate camera tinkerer. Just can't leave well enough alone. The focusing helical on this is what piques my interest. A lot of possibilities there, for hacked barrel lenses etc. I can un-clip the 101mm f4.5 Anastar lens from my Kodak Tourist II and try that. It won't cover the whole 154mm diagonal but so what, it is just dinking around with cameras for the fun of it. I also have a 130mm f7.7 Kodak Anastigmat from a 1930 Autographic. I know that will cover, I've tried it on 4X5 already. All I'd need is to hack a 40 mm or so extension made out of ABS plumbing pipe.<br>

Sure, I'll keep an eye out for a 90, but I'll find a way to use the camera for sure. </p>

[larry kellogg]

<p>John,<br>

The camera is definitely meant as a base for other projects. I think it does appeal to the DIY crowd. Let us know how things turn out with the 130mm. I might like to mount a 125mm Fujinon on it. It would be great if someone produced some extension tubes.</p>

[conrad_truedson1]

<p>The video is pretty humorous and, unfortunately, deceptive if you have never shot 4x5. The guy never uses a light meter? He trundles around like he is using a digital camera. Point and shoot! And great shots every time. With a handheld camera no less. And on a 50 year old lens. Oh, well for 99 it is fine. But I suspect people are going to be surprised how expensive it all is in the end. A box of 20 sheets plus developing is more than the price of the camera right there. Plus film holders, a meter, and finding one of those ancient lenses. </p>

[larry kellogg]

<p>Conrad, <br /> Color negative film has tremendous latitude, you don't need to shoot with a meter, you can basically guess and get great shots. Film is better than digital in this way. See this review of two films, 500T and Portra 400: http://www.twinlenslife.com/2010/12/in-bleak-midwinter-new-kodak-portra400.html <br /><br />Here is the last paragraph: <br /><br />"It seems that both stocks do very well rated to be between 3 stops over (50), and 2 under (1600) in the mid-tones, which allows for a 6 stop margin of error. But the 500T still holds some exposure as much as 7 stops under! I would not knowingly underexpose even these amazing films more than a stop without push processing, though I also would shoot with confidence that no matter where I meter a scene the image will expose well. I mean, thats why we shoot film essentially. We don't need to chimp a shot, or even re-meter much at all, especially knowing that if we err on the side of overexposure it will be beautiful. And apparently the occasional underexposed shot would turn out as well! Granted, one would have to try very hard to underexpose an image 4 stops, especially when you know you could go over 8 stops in the highlights and be golden. It's the difference of f/1.4 and 16 for goodness sakes! What I walk away with from this example is; that no matter what the lighting situation is, or how you are reading the light, all the precious times and moments in life can be (as it should be) lived like a movie. ;-)"<br /><br />This review of Portra 400 says you can choose from four exposures: http://www.shutterbug.com/content/kodak-portra-400-latitude-grain-and-“scanability”-combined Discard the indoor option for this camera. TravelWide means you should go outside.<br /><br />By the way, the lens on my 49 year old Rolleiflex still produces stunning images, pretty much my favorite shots out of everything except my large format 4x5 field camera.<br /><br />Portra 400 is $36 for ten shots, say $2.50 a shot for processing, brings you to $6 a shot, not cheap, but you can get a 150-250 megapixel image out of each shot. How much is a 150 megapixel digital back? If you want the sharpest possible shots, you buy one of those plastic gorilla tripods and stop down to f/22. This camera is going to produce amazing shots from an incredibly lightweight package. Just wait and see!</p>

[nbg90455]

<blockquote>you can get a 150-250 megapixel image out of each shot.</blockquote>

<p>Only? :D</p>

[larry kellogg]

<p>Mike, <br /> Ok, you can go to 300+ megapixels. I didn't want to rub it in. LOL. Here is your 8x10 digital sensor solution, just a couple of hundred thousand dollars: <br /><br /><a href="http://gizmodo.com/5834699/this-is-the-largest-camera-sensor-in-the-world">http://gizmodo.com/5834699/this-is-the-largest-camera-sensor-in-the-world<br /><br />H</a>ow much are the cheaper 4x5 digital sensor solutions? Ha ha. A Hasselblad system will set you back $30-60k, and the value will plummet as soon as you buy it. We have the cheap solution covered.<br /><br />Here is something to look at, from Ken Lee's terrific website: <br /><br /><a href="http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/Peonies.html">Peonies:</a><br /><br />and a <a href="http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/fuji240detail.html">bug</a> from that shot:<br /><br />I can pull 1-2 megapixel images showing detail of buildings that are half a mile from my apartment when I do a 3200dpi scan of a 4x5 shot. Just incredible.</p>

[conrad_truedson1]

<p>I think it could be a fine camera, I ordered one myself---how can you go wrong for $99, IF you have the equipment, including the lens already. But for anyone who hasn't does large format before, they are in for a rude awakening. The video is hugely deceptive, 400 speed or not.<br>

And the 6.8 lens from what I see is available nowhere in this country. Ebay, BandH, adorama, nothing. <br>

<br />And a handheld pinhole camera? I don't think so.<br>

<br />Anyways, I wish them luck. </p>

<p> </p>

[larry kellogg]

<p>Conrad,<br /> Why is the video deceptive? They show actual shots taken with the actual prototype cameras. The shots with the production camera are going to be better because the plastic material they used to build the prototypes is not 100% light tight, no matter how much they taped up. The production cameras will be 100% light tight.<br /><br /> It's pretty easy to handhold with 400 speed film in bright sunlight. This is not a low light camera.<br /><br /> There are Angulon 6.8s available on eBay, and the Angulon f/8 also works although it is a little heavier. I keep bugging them to list other 90mm options. There are a lot of old 90mm press lenses that will work. The Optar is another. See the Large Format Film photography thread for more choices. <br /><br />With the camera weighing so little, a plastic gorilla tripod is going to be easy to use. I'm getting one. No need to carry my Gitzo 1228.<br /> <br />I'm glad you're onboard! It IS a bargain. You can't go wrong.</p>

[larry kellogg]

<p>Oh, the test shots were on 160, as Ben said, from the other thread:<br /><br />"Regarding metering and Sunny 16... All the Brazil stuff was shot on a combination of Portra 160 and Fuji 160S, and only a couple shots were explicitly metered. The nice thing about negative film is that you can split the exposure without losing half the image to pure black or white."</p>

[conrad_truedson1]

<p>This is my last post. I have no interest in a back and forth.<br>

There is right now ONE Angulon 6.8 on sale on ebay and it is 260 dollars. And these guys are planning to sell 750 of these things? <br>

<br />As for deceptive they metered a couple of shots, and that is probably all you need if all your shots are in the same conditions. And yet they leave that rather important point out. <br>

As I said, I hope they make these things. I really do. I have an old Angulon 6.8, and to play around with one of these would be fine. But if you know nothing about LF and watch that video, and buy one, well good luck.</p>

[larry kellogg]

<p>Yes, there is a learning curve to shooting film. People can always velcro a Digisix meter to the side of the camera. I hope that the camera comes with a good set of instructions for people who are not experienced large format shooters. <br /><br /> Still, I would think at this point that most purchasers have shot large format film. I think people know what they're getting into. There are more than 600 large format shooters on the planet. As for lenses, that situation will work itself out. I bought my Angulon a couple of weeks ago. People have eight months to get a lens.<br /><br />Anyway, I'm not trying to argue with you, this post is for other people who read the thread.</p>

[barry schmetter]

The cool thing is there's going to be an instant community of photographers with Travelwides, so they'll be plenty of help

to get everyone up and running. There are tons of 90mm f/8 lenses that will work just fine on the camera as well as many

lenses besides the 90mm Angulon. Everyone will get a high quality pinhole to start with, so the camera is usable out of

the box.

[john_robison3]

<p>Even for the folks new to LF there is the LF Photography forum, lots of help there. Another way to get your feet wet without the expense of burning film is the paper negative route. You can cut from Ilford 8X10 and load and process under safelight. If you preflash the paper the ISO is about 12. Even with that slow speed with an f8 lens shot wide open in direct sun you could get away with 1/30 sec perhaps. </p>

[larry kellogg]

<p>More photos from the TravelWide up on the Flickr stream: Judge for yourself.</p>

[conrad_truedson1]

<p>Progress! An email:<br>

We're at 90%, everyone—thank you! We just need a few more backers, so keep telling your friends—it's working!<br>

<em>We get messages and emails every day asking about lenses, so we'd like to take a moment and talk about them. First of all, we realize that the Travelwide project has temporarily upset the 90mm and 65mm lens market. It should return to normal in a few weeks—so if you haven't secured a lens yet, keep in mind that you have at least a few months before we're ready to ship the camera. Schneider made these lenses for decades, and they were extremely popular, so there is absolutely no danger of a global shortage.</em><br>

<em><br /></em>That last line is a bit optimistic. And on what evidence? I mean where are these extra lenses going to come from? They may have been popular for decades, but they also stopped making them decades ago. <br>

<br />As I said, I hope this thing works out. But considering this thing is on kickstarter, a site I suspect is visited mostly by people whose first and only camera is an iphone, a lot of folks are probably in for a rude awakening. Oh, well all in fun. Like getting a 4x5 holga without the lens.<br>

<em> </em></p>

<p> </p>