Outdoor Wedding Shoot - Lighting Question

[alex_bruce]

<p>Hi Everyone!</p>

<p>I have a quick question about outdoor light diffusion options for an upcoming wedding I’m shooting. The wedding is taking place in a church on the beach. The lighting inside the church is fine, no issues there. The issue I am having is with the outdoor portraits after the wedding. The church won’t let me shoot inside the church after the wedding so that option is out. The primary issue is the post-ceremony portraits that will take place outdoors. There is NO shade nearby AT ALL! I scouted the location and it’s right on the beach so there just aren’t any trees nearby or really anything that provides shade. The shoot will be taking place mid-day on a fairly sunny day so my primary concern is being able to shoot the post-ceremony portraits outdoors and somehow eliminating the super-harsh shadows that will spear naturally mid-day on a sunny day. </p>

<p>So far my ideas are, if I can position everyone accordingly I could have the sun to the back of my subjects and use my speedlite for a little fill. As far as I can see now, this will be my go-to option, however there are a few situations where I will NOT be able to have the sun behind my subjects. I was thinking that maybe I should get a large scrim that my assistant could hold over everyone to diffuse the harsh sun; does this sound like a good idea? Can anyone recommend a product that will work for this purpose? If getting a scrim large enough to work with group shots isn’t a doable, I think I can position all the larger group shots with their back to the sun using my speedlite as fill, and move to the location where the sun will <strong>not</strong> be at my subject’s backs for the shots of just the bride and groom, so I would require a much smaller scrim. What does everyone think, are these good ideas and do you have any products you can recommend? I’m also a photo student so money is a consideration and I’d like to keep the cost for this at or below $200. Oh, and I should mention this is taking place on public property so I will likely get a hard time for anything that requires a stand.<br>

Thanks everyone for your input!</p>

 

[william-porter]

<p>Alex,</p>

<p>This is the big problem with outdoors weddings. People often want to have them at midday, when the light can be fairly brutal.</p>

<p>Competing with the sun is pretty hard.</p>

<ul>

<li>If you have the subjects face the sun, they may squint or be uncomfortable. And you may get bad shadows.</li>

<li>You can try getting people to face sideways, that is, facing just a little less than ninety degrees to the sun, enough to let some light on their faces, but not so much that they're squinting. I've gotten this to work occasionally but it's not a sure thing. If the sun's not high enough you can end up with long nose shadows on people's faces.</li>

<li>If you have them put their backs to the sun (say, facing north if you're shooting in the USA), you either expose for their faces and risk blowing out the background (which might be unacceptable because the background is the whole point of the outdoor wedding!) or you use fill flash. It can be tricky. If you do it just slightly wrong, the subjects might look like they're standing in front of a fake background, because the lighting for them is so different from the background lighting. But fill flash might be your best choice. Ideally, you might use two or even three flashes, remotely triggered. </li>

</ul>

<p>The problem I have had in the past is, you won't really know until the moment comes to take the shots, exactly what sort of light you've got to work with. You can go out there the day before and try to predict, but your prediction will never be completely reliable. </p>

<p>Of course you can pray for some soft clouds to filter the light! Maybe you'll get lucky.</p>

<p>Doesn't the church itself provide any shade? I mean, could you possibly do the portraits on the shady side of the church building, outside?</p>

<p>Will</p>

 

[Ian Taylor]

<p>There is no way a single assistant can hold a large scrim if it's windy. Then you are in a potentially dangerous situation. I spent many years as a grip on movie sets and this was part of our job - making diffusion and negative fill safe. It can be very tricky.<br>

I would just backlight if possible and fill with flash. Not ideal, but it would be OK. Or discuss the issue with the client and see if they are OK with shooting the formals at a better location. That happens all the time.<br>

Doubtless you will get some other suggestions here. </p>

[john_deerfield]

<p>For the groups you are simply going to have to rely on the quality of light you have that day. As mentioned, a scrim large enough for a group is going to require a lighting crew. I would however try to get access to something with a bit more power than a shoe mount flash. I don't know if there is any way you might be able to rent a strobe and wireless trigger, but a shoe mount flash outside, near mid-day in bright light is likely to overheat. For shots of the bride and groom, I would definitely look into some <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/736129-REG/Impact_R_714272_7_in_1_Reflector_42x72.html">reflectors and diffusers</a>, the bigger the better. You could even lie a silver reflector down in front of a group when you are backlighting them to try and get some more light on the group. And then just grab someone from the wedding party to hold the diffuser between the bride and groom or other "smaller" shots.</p>

[savagesax]

For portraits, outside, no shade, you can buy a large black screen for a local hardware store. It's your standard door screen for a screen door. Has tiny holes and black. Pretty much as big of a piece you can by. Then buy 4 polls, metal, wood, doesn't matter. Get something around 15 plus feet and staple the screen to the four corners of the polls. Have some volunteers to help hold the 4 polls over the heads of the couple.

 

Now that you blocked the unwanted harsh afternoon light meter the beach and set the camera to the beach lighting and set the flash so your couples faces are not dark or blown away.

 

While playing in the sand have some people draw a heart in the sand and put the couple just outside of the sand and/or inside of the heart. You can also do this with the wedding party and the wedding couple surrounding the sand heart.

 

Beach weddings are a blast.

 

Be prepared. Sand can blow around mess up the lenses so the focusing and the zoom will freeze up from just one particle of sand. Cover the lenses with plastic is there is a breeze.

[william-porter]

<p>Oy, Bob! Don't you worry about a breeze causing one of those poles to come down on the heads of the subjects?</p>

<p>Will</p>

[dave_wilson1]

Check out sunbounce.com that's the real deal.

[savagesax]

William, get 4 people to hold the poles. So the answer is no!

[alex_bruce]

<p>Thanks everyone for some fantastic responses and options! </p>

<p>Will – Thanks for this summary. As you might be able to tell I’m a photo student and a total rookie with weddings but it was great reading your response because in essence you validated what I had already suspected. My hope is that as I would be using the speedlite just as fill, my 430EX II would be have enough power to get the job done fairly easily. As for the shade of the church, because it will be mid day the church itself won’t cast much of a shadow. I shouted the location at mid day and the shade of the church was minimal and the only option I’d have if I wanted to use it was to put my subjects against the church’s stucco wall…yuck!</p>

<p>Ian – Yes, especially because the assistant is ,my 5’3” wife! Haha! A potential alternative though would be to get a smaller scrim for the bride and groom shots and do the group shots with their back to the sun using flash as fill.</p>

<p>John – Thanks for your suggestion; I did a test shoot with my wife and tried this idea of having a reflector either on the ground or propped up by a light stand. The problem I had was because the light from the reflector originated from a low vantage point the light it reflected created unnatural and kind of weird lighting patterns…similar to the flashlight under the chin move.</p>

<p>Bob –I like your DIY solution, however it’s a small wedding party and I doubt I’d have enough people to wield my homemade scrim. I like that idea though! Hey, I see you’re in LA…I’m on Orange County, you can come hold by the wedding and be one of the scrim “pole bearers”! Haha!</p>

<p>Dave – the Sunbounce stuff looks awesome, however way out of my price range for the time being.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Yes, I think using silks (i.e., "scrims") to shoot your mid-day exteriors is an excellent approach. Polysilks produce a beautiful light quality. The problem is size, cost, and rigging.</p>

<p>Overhead silks from California Sunbounce are your best bet for handholding, but they're fairly pricey, and aren't large enough for full-length group photos. Westcott ScrimJims are also excellent, and is what we use where I work, but they're also fairly expensive, and also limited in size. One of the best bargains in panel-style portable diffusers is Photoflex' line of Litepanels.</p>

<p>The larger Photoflex Litepanels are aluminum-framed, and would still require at least two C-stands and six shotbags to rig (also, rope, if windy). The small, 39" x 39" Litepanel is hand-holdable, but would only service a head-and-shoulders portrait. If choosing Photoflex, you would select the "translucent" panel (the only "silk" like panel they make), which is similar in density to a Polysilk, but perhaps a 1/4-stop more transmissive. I own a Photoflex 39" x 72" and a couple of 39" x 39" plastic-framed Litepanels, and they make very pretty light when used with the translucent panel. The 39" x 39" panel is so affordable, I would recommend you get one anyway, so you can at least can take a pretty head shot of the bride.</p>

<p>However, not being able to place stands rules out most conventional grip solutions, save for a Sunbounce or Lastolite handheld product. If stands were allowed, you could actually rent a fairly elaborate set-up for not too much money (grip rentals aren't very expensive). But a large overhead requires a significant amount of rigging (e.g., super-heavy steel stands, tons of shotbags, rope, etc.). Plus, a silk large enough for a wedding party would be necessarily as large: 12' x 12' to 20' x 20'. This would require professional rigging, and a lot of gear. Permits and insurance would be an issue as well since rigging this large can easily injure someone.</p>

<p>In the past, I've set-up fairly elaborate personal shoots on Los Angeles County beaches without any problems. The one time police did question us, I said I was student (I <em>was</em> at the time), and they just let us continue shooting. Of course you can't rely on this kind of "luck" on a paying gig, even though all they're likely to do is to ask you to strike your overhead (however, some municipalities do issue fines for shooting without a permit). But, check out the Photoflex stuff . . . good luck!</p>

[Marcus Ian]

<blockquote>

<p>My hope is that as I would be using the speedlite just as fill, my 430EX II would be have enough power to get the job done fairly easily</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I would say from my experience, this is not adequate to give good fill at a beach wedding. Recall that even at iso100, you are likely to be well about 1/200-250, which means you will be in HSS (which cuts your effective power dramatically). Instead, I would plan on getting a couple of cheapy optical slaves to add some 'oomph'. Unfortunately, wireless E-TTL is simply not reliable in those shooting circumstances, so you must rely upon radio triggers, or optical slaves...</p>

 

[gustavo_duenas1]

<p>If you have an assistant, as we do, you can try those reflector-light bouncers and use it from a convenient location to give some shade to them and set your white balance to shade or similar values. another might be to use the highest shutter speed, white balance to direct sunlight or its equivalency on your camera and set the colors to as crisp as you can. We did that on a sunlight (a canicular one) beach wedding and it went great(crispy and sharp colors). I will advice you to start going to that place and checking the light conditions at a similar timeframe...practice will make you better.</p>

<p>Gus<br></p>

 

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[studio460]

<p>As Gustavo mentions, reflectors are sometimes incredibly handy. My favorite are the Matthews' 40" x 40" Matthboards:</p>

<p>http://www.msegrip.com/product/lighting-control-1/matthews-expendable-reflectors.html</p>

<p>They're sold without the optional yoke, and though they look sturdy in the catalog photo, they're actually fairly light since they're basically made out of large-corrugated cardboard. But don't let that fool you--they're pretty sturdy, and remain very stiff even in wind (just don't let them get wet!).</p>

<p>Matthboards make extremely pretty, soft light, at a <em>very</em> high EV (resembles a 4K HMI through a silk). However, their main drawback is that they're literally blinding unless positioned high above your subject's eyeline, or relatively off-axis to their eyeline. The other caveat is that their beam angle is very narrow, and is only really capable of servicing a single subject--and, only a head-and-shoulders shot at that. However, maybe that's all you may need, and multiple Matthboards could be handheld (with more assistants), with each directed at a separate subject.</p>

<p>Kinda pricey for what they are, but for what they do, they're awesome (make sure you get the "fill-silver" version, part no. 119728, with the "super-soft" and "ultra-soft" sides, not the "standard" one). The main thing that separates a Matthboard from the rest is that they're rigid <em>and</em> lightweight. Flexible-panel and fold-out reflectors are completely useless in the wind since the light gets directed seemingly everywhere but at your subject (California Sunbounce reflectors may be the exception, but I don't know--I've never used them. Plus, they're ultra-pricey).</p>

<p>For those looking for a cheaper solution, Rosco sells a similar reflective material in rolls (Matthews doesn't sell theirs) which you can spray-adhesive (3M Super 77) to some Gator Board, or one-inch thick bead board (Styrofoam), sold in 4' x 8' sheets. I once had a gaffer make a pile of those for a bikini shoot on a beach in Hawaii for a television show I was shooting, and they worked great!</p>

[Ian Taylor]

<p>Read the OP's info.<br>

He has one assistant, his 5'3" wife, and a $200 budget. They can't do these big reflectors and diffusion solutions and other such things. They are impossible both physically and monetarily.</p>

[William Michael]

<p>If you do choose to use your Speedlite as Fill, then you must ensure that you are aware of the Maximum Effective Distance the Speedlite will have.<br>

<br />In full sun on a beach, you’ll have a maximum of about 8~9ft (3mtrs) with a Canon 430MkII Speedlite. To be safe and to have enough Flash power for effective Flash as Fill and Sun as back / side / top light, you should have the flash at about 8ft, maximum.<br>

Obviously, if you have the Flash mounted on the camera, then your SD (Shooting Distance) will also be at 8ft.<br />In this case, you’ll be using a W.A. Lens (about FL = 30mm on a 6D), so you will need to have your wits about you, both regarding framing the shot; and also the internal arrangement of any Groups.</p>

<p>Personally, (as already mentioned) I’d investigate another close by location for the formals of the Bridal Party (and perhaps Mums and Dads included) – this can be whilst the guests are being served canapés. </p>

<p>WW</p>

[studio460]

<p>Ian said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Read the OP's info.<br />He has one assistant, his 5'3" wife, and a $200 budget. They can't do these big reflectors and diffusion solutions and other such things. They are impossible both physically and monetarily.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Are you talking to me? I discussed additional options for the benefit of the OP's general reference, with their respective caveats. It's also appropriate for such a generally titled thread as, "Outdoor Wedding Shoot," to include such options for others searching for similar information.</p>

<p>For his budget, I included additional recommendations which were under $200: e.g., a 39" x 72" Photoflex aluminum-framed Litepanel is a $104 (the plastic version is only $54). The diffusion panel is $30. While getting the scrim high enough in the midday sun would remain a challenge without using stands, these are light enough to handhold.</p>

[William Michael]

<p>. . . I meant to explain that in my example above, where I described using a 30mm lens - this was for Full Length Shots, in Landscape Orientation. <br>

Tighter shots, for example an Half Shot of the Bride and Groom using an 85mm lens, you’ll be able to get <em><strong>about</strong></em> 10~12ft of Effective Working Distance out of the 430MkII Flash. This is because the Guide Number (GN) increases as the "Flash zoom FL" increases (to a maximum FL = 105mm).<br>

The advertised GN for (modern) Canon Flash Units, is generally for a 105mm lens used on a 135 Format aka “Full Frame” camera.<br>

WW</p>

[ellery_chua___singapore]

<p>Alex check with the priest if it is okay to do the family group near the enterence of the church. Who knows you may luck out and it has steps lead into the church.</p>