rodeo_joe1 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 <p>OK, one more stab at this. After finally tracking down some poorly translated information on those triggers, it seems they're switchable between radio triggering and optical triggering. <strong>If</strong> one trigger was in radio mode and the other in optical mode, then that could (possibly) explain a synch difference between the flashes. That still doesn't properly explain the "one giant leap for mankind" that would selectively make part of the image move a good 3 centimetres in 1/125th of a second. Did the couple jump out their skin when the flash fired? Worst case of camera shake ever recorded? Massive earth tremor or sonic boom at the very instant of exposure? I've also seen similar double images from using a cracked filter on the lens.</p> <p>Faulty VR is looking more likely, but it would probably have to be coupled with a flash triggering glitch as well.</p> <p>John. Can you please clear up what the exact exposure conditions were by checking the EXIF data, which for some reason has been cleared from your posted image? Details beneath the image say 1/50th at f/4.5 with ISO 200, but then later you say that you set 1/125th at f/11. Which is it?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sunley Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 <p>No the whole image is blurred, look at this magnified view of the tree branch to the right of the grooms jacket. Major shift in it as well. The only answer is VR moving the image, just what is the cause is a good question.</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann_overland Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 <p>Do you have the speedlights in the CLS wireless slave mode, John? I read they shouldn't be when triggered by radio.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccosh Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 <p>Rodeo, The image was taking as per the note under the image 1/50th at f/4.5 with ISO 200 - I did note later that this also happened in my studio using the flash triggers to white out the backdrop where the camera was set up on manual and 1/125th at f/11.<br> <br> Both receivers were set on witless setting.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccosh Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 <p>Hi Ann, no speedlights were set to manual.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann_overland Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 <p>Is the manual mode switching it off by default?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccosh Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 <p>Sorry Ann, is the Manual mode switching what off by default.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sunley Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 <p>Ann,</p> <p>You can put a camera on a tripod, lock the shutter open for about 2 a minute exposure and manually pop a flash twenty or so times, walking down one side of a store and up the other to light paint the whole area, guess what, no image shift. <br> The mode settings won't cause the image shift, although they could possibly cause non synced flashes.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann_overland Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 <p>The 'wireless flash icon', is it set to OFF, John? You use them in OFF mode when you have them in TTL on-camera. They should also be in OFF mode when triggered by radio.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccosh Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 <p>Hi Ann, Yes the commander mode is switched to off on the SB600 speedlights. These units don't have any other wireless function, unlike the SB800 and SB900 units.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann_overland Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 <p>The SB600 doesn't have commander properties, John. It is the slave mode that should be switched to OFF. Anyway, that is okey then.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccosh Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 <p>Were got crossed wires, but think were talking about the same thing. The SB600 has commander mode as in that it can be used to receive commander flashes from either the pop up flash in my case from my D90's or from a SB900. My pair of SB600's were set on manual and not (commander mode to receive a commander signal).</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann_overland Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 <p>The commander is the boss. The SB600 is an intelligent slave. It has to be in slave mode when it is communicating wirelessly by ir light with the boss. The boss is being either a built-in-flash with commander properties, or an on-camera speedlight with commander properties. Both the camera and the on-camera speedlight with commander properties has to be set to commander mode in order to be the boss.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_skomial Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 <p>The best is to use Nikon's nomenclature, or naming things, e.g. COMMANDER MODE, REMOTE MODE, and such...., so there will not be any confusion, even though Nikon's literature is sometimes confusing or imprecise or incomplete in their descriptions.</p> <p>All modes of SB600 are known and well defined, so there is no reason to explain this as in the last text from Josh, since it only confuses people. </p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccosh Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 <p>Thanks everyone for your input. Every one is very much appreciated. Unfortunately we never really got to the root of the cause. I have tried adjusting the channel on the unit and took a hundred shots with no sign of any problems. I then set the channel back to the previous channel to confirm that this was the problem. But now can't repeat the problem. Have I fixed the problem I sure hope so, But not confident yet to shoot my next wedding with off camera flash until I am 100% certain that this isn't going to recur. Will be doing as much testing as I can to confirm the problem has been fixed. I am now currently operating the units on a different channel and will leave it on this channel.<br /><br />I suspect somehow this has been a VR problem with the lens as I can't work out how else this would occur. I have scrutinised other images at 3.1 that I have taking with the same lens and settings without flash and can't find any hint of any ghosting. So who knows.<br /><br />If I ever get to the bottom of it, I will keep you all informed. Thank you all again for your input.<br /><br />Kind regards<br /> John <br /><br /><br /></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann_overland Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 <p>Did you notice that there is only one catch light in their eyes, John?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccosh Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 <p>Hi Ann,</p> <p>Very good point, just checked the original image at 3:1 and yes there is only a single catch light. Checking the photo's next to this one that is ok has two catch lights in the eyes so there is a clue to the problem. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccosh Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 <p>Well still haven't worked out what the problem is, but have noticed this shot, look at finger nails - that was taking with my D90 with the SB600 on camera. So rules out the wireless flash being the problem. Have just ordered the new D600 camera so will test that out, but saying that I have two D90's and this latest shot was captured on a different camera than the previous ones. So pretty sure it is not the camera that is at fault here.</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sunley Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 <p>Yes there is ghosting of the subjects left and right arms, plus a distinct shadow from the on camera flash. What is the source of the even brighter light to camera right? All the camera exif data is stripped, so there is no indication of camera and lens model, shutter speed, etc.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccosh Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 <p>Hi Bob all the camera details are under the picture, The bright source to the right is light from a window.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann_overland Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 <p>In this shot it <em>could </em>be subject movement. The shutter speed is only 1/60s. Have you seen the effect with other lenses?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sunley Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 <p>Or the camera is moving, combined with some subject motion, most of the image shift appears to be horizontal.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccosh Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 <p>Hi Ann, Yes I have seen this with other lenses. The original image on this post was with a different D90 camera with a different lens on it. The only thing possibly in common was the flash unit. I currently shoot with two D90's one with 18 - 105 kit lens and the other D90 with 70 - 300mm lens. I also have two SB600 flash units. The original image in the post was with both flash units being used off camera with wireless units. The last post was one SB600 flash unit on camera.</p> <p>I have just ordered a D600 and a Tamron 28 - 75 f/2.8 lens when this arrives I will be testing out to see if this recurs. </p> <p>I have shot around 150,000 images on both my D90's over the last 4 years with no problem. Then in the last couple of months I am getting this ghosting effect, with differnt camera bodies with different lens's attached. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann_overland Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 <p>If you think that this is <em>not</em> caused by subject movement or camera movement, it is <em>not</em> caused by the radio triggers, it is <em>not</em> caused by the camerabodies or the lenses, then we are only left with the two flashes as suspects.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sunley Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 <p>Is this ghosting always happening only with VR type lenses and flash usage? Or does it occur with non-VR lenses and flash? Does it occur only in portrait format images? Maybe one of your flash units is generating enough RFI to mess with the camera and VR. </p> <p>You will have to analyze all the images with ghosting and determine the exact equipment configuration that is causing the shifting to occur. Or do some testing of all combinations.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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