STARTING OUT... at the BOTTOM

[peter_todd4]

<p>Hi, what cameras are there out there for under $100 (yes, ebay) that would be a nice/novel way to try out rangefinders, both 35mm and medium format? I'm thinking of getting a Minolta Hi-Matic (7s, 7sII, 9, 11) for the fast aperture and reputedly good quality lens but have no ideas about medium format. Thanks in advance. Peter.</p>

[SCL]

<p>Hi Peter - Last month I purchased both a Ricoh Diacord TLR and a Yashica Mat TLR, each for less than $60 on Ebay; they were in generally good shape, but required a little lighter fluid to ease congealed lubrication. I've since replaced their finders with much brighter split image ones (because of my poor eyesight) from Rick Oleson ($30 ea). I just posted a thread on PN and some pictures shot in the fog, the hedgerow and hawthorns were shot on the Ricoh - and I'm quite happy with the results.<br>

On the issue of 35mm rangefinders under $100, I've managed to collect a few....most needed a slight rangefinder adjustment, and all work great. My favorites (I won't pay more than $50 for them, are the 1957-60 Ricoh 500, both the high top and regular rangefinder models, and I've managed to get a more scarce Ricoh 519, which has a faster lens on it, but costs more. Last night I picked up a Yashica 35 (not the GS series - which are aso terrific), for $28 on Ebay. There are plenty of more offerings out there under $100 which are not only serviceable RF cameras, but which have excellent sharp and contrasty lenses. Unlike the Leicas, however, the lenses are not interchangeable, they are in fixed mounts. Below is a shot of one of the Ricoh 500 models to which I'm referring.</p>

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[Frank Petronio]

I'd buy anything from a major manufacturer based on condition, as in having a recent service and

cleaning, new light seals, and proper function. If you're patient, someone will be selling a camera for $100

not so long after they've spent $100 to get it cleaned and adjusted.

 

If you're going to be picky, a used Canonet QL-17III is hard to beat, but the Olympus and Minoltas were

good too. There is a ton of info on these on the cameraquest website.

[aplumpton]

<p>You will be extremely lucky to find a post 1950s fixed lens medium format rangefinder at your price point, but, as mentioned, there are some really good 35 mm equivalents (Canonet, Minolta, etc.). Better to avoid pre 1950s folding RF cameras, even Zeiss or the better ones, as a number have folding bellow problems or sealing problems (you are buying, in part, a light tight box). Problem with eBay and buying from a non-photographer is that some of these older cameras are not in fine working condition and the seller cannot answer probing questions about lens condition, focus smoothness, RF alignment or shutter function, Best to buy from here (Photo.Net, you can place a WTB) or a known re-seller like KEH or other. You can be lucky on eBay, but not always. </p>

[keith selmes]

<p>For 35mm, I chose and kept an Olympus 35RC.<br>

I also tried a Canon QL, it was excellent but I didn't like it as much.<br>

The Oly just feels handier.</p>

<p>Medium format is more difficult. Even the mechanically doubtful Moscow series of folders aren't all that cheap now.<br>

I have kept mine because the lens is really good. ( Although the camera on the whole is a bit rough, and I had some trouble with misfires, it probably is worth a lot more than I paid )</p>

<p>There might be some MF viewfinder cameras that would take an accessory rangefinder ?</p>

<p> </p>

[john_shriver]

<p>For that budget, you may need to think about getting good at do-it-yourself camera repairs. You will hit oily shutters on the 35mm rangefinders. You will hit leaky bellows on folders.<br>

Most of my Kodak folders have required bellows work. Mostly I've been able to find compatible NOS bellows to replace them with, or cannibalize another camera of same size with lousy lens/shutter for it's bellows. The older leather bellows are more likely to be good, but the synthetic ones are mostly gone. Note that most Kodak folders are junk, only 1% of them were made with good lenses and shutters. Kodak Monitor and Vigilant Six-20 can be had with good lenses, but bellows almost always shot. Kodak No. 1 Specials (there's about four models) are excellent cameras, and use 120 film.<br>

Zeiss 120 folders are just getting way too expensive.<br>

I'm partial to the Aires rangefinders for a nice 35mm rangefinder that's easy to repair, and it has a nice shutter and excellent 45mm f/1.9 H-Coral lens. The later ones have a better rangefinder/viewfinder with bright lines than many cameras in their class, due to a clever patented design trick. But the shutter probably needs cleaning, and the focusing helical lube can ossify.</p>

[dave_redmann]

<p>Of the ones I've tried, the Konica Auto S2 performs the best, but the Canon Canonet GIII QL17 also performs well, is a lot more compact, and has a dedicated Canolite flash that couples with the focus distance to get the right flash output. I have never used a Minolta Hi-Matic 7sII, but that's the only other one I really want to try.</p>

<p>Almost all of these cameras will need their light seals replaced, if it has not already been done. Fortunately, with a little self-adhesive foam, an X-Acto knife, and a little patients, you can do it yourself (I've done several).</p>

<p>Coincidentally, I pretty much don't shoot 35mm film any more, and an about to put mine on eBay.</p>

<p>As for medium format, you're pretty much looking at old, low-end folders, which rarely if ever have the viewfinder-coupled rangefinder systems like the 35mm's, but do have their own issues, as others have mentioned. Seems like a bad path to me. If you really want medium format, get a TLR instead of a rangefinder, or spend more and get a Koni Omega (big, heavy).</p>

 

[carson_moore]

<p>I've had amazing luck with every Canon Ae-1 that I've used. I have three at the moment, one was from my father's days as a yearbook photographer in highschool. His was kept in pristine condition and works perfectly.</p>

<p>I might suggest searching Etsy.com. I know that there are many photographers that sell their extra gear on the site and have tested it to see if it is in working order.</p>

[baisao]

<p>I found some of this information difficult to find so I am sharing it here...</p>

<p>I just replaced light seals on a junk store Canon from 1970. I highly recommend the pre-cut light seal kits from Jon Goodman in Texas. It cost me $10 and came with everything I needed: instructions, precut materials of foam and felt, and tool. He used to sell these via an eBay store but now can be contacted directly at <strong>JGood21967@aol.com</strong></p>

<p>Here is a list of instructions, per camera. While I could not find my exact model I was able to find one that was close enough to guide me through it.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/sealreplacement.html">http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/sealreplacement.html</a></p>

<p>If you need to cut your own light seals, Micro-Tools sells foam (they call it "light baffle"). Here is a link to their light baffle foam (as expensive and not as good as Jon Goodman's kits):<br>

<br /><a href="http://www.micro-tools.com/store/P-LB2MM/Light-Baffle-2mm-25cm-x-12cm.aspx">http://www.micro-tools.com/store/P-LB2MM/Light-Baffle-2mm-25cm-x-12cm.aspx</a></p>

<p>HTH,<br>

Jim</p>

 

[peter_todd4]

<p>Thanks for comments so far. I think I'm going to get a 35mm rangefinder and a 6x6 TLR, probably a Yashica and see how things go from there!</p>

[rob_caswell1]

<p>Yashica Lynx and Yashica Electro were fun for awhile... if you can find a working body. I was pretty impressed with the lens. The Rangefinder was pitiful.</p>

[aplumpton]

<p>Peter, the Chinese company, makers of TLR camera, have 2 or 3 models of a rangefinder 6x6 (and 6x4,5cm) camera that is or was based upon the German and Japanese folding cameras. You might find one in good condition as they are of a little bit more recent manufacture (from the 50s up to 1977). I've seen one listed at about $160 from England which seems high but they may not be readily available where you are, The APUG forum occasionally has one at $20 or $50. The lens is only 3 elements and some say the RF is not very bright but they are not expensive. It seems to be a Chinese version of the German Agfa Super Isolette RF (uncoupled) camera that can possibly be had for about $200. The earlier bellows were apparently problematic on Isolette models up to 1956, and possibly today. While rangefinders are a different experience than TLRs, the folding cameras may present more problems of reliability, as has already been said by Dave and John.</p>

[m_m3]

<p>skip 35mm, and get a fuji mf rf. it will be easier to scan.</p>

[peter_todd4]

<p>A belated thankyou to Rob, Arthur and M M for your replies.</p>