Neutral Density Filter

[sarah_briggs]

<p>I know I need a ND filter. I am getting into shooting mountains and canyons and am having real issues with the ridgeline and skyline. Partly because I don't have a super great camera, a Nikon d5100, but its what I can afford. </p>

<p>I am having a hard time deciding between a graduated ND filter and a single density screw on. I am thinking a screw on would be best for climbing, being active and on the move, as well as being new to this kind of thing. Or, should I by-pass them all together and just get what would be better. To avoid spending time and money on something that, in the end, isn't really what I was looking for. I am also a little intimidated by the graduated ones. It seems like a lot of time usage changing filters and getting it just right. I hike and climb generally with my camera in hand the entire time. I don't hull a lot, if any, camera gear with me besides a lens cloth and spare SD. I am not Ansel Adams, lugging an entire darkroom and set of graduate students with me, looking for the most perfect second to snap a shot. Mostly, I like the freedom and hiking and shooting at the same time, but really want to get rid of that awful ridge line saturation/reflection. </p>

[luis_g]

<p>The straight ND will do nothing for your stated problem. You need a GND filter or learn HDR to get by. Camera in hand? No tripod? You should learn something about Ansel Adams, too.</p>

[szrimaging]

<p>The 5100 has, if I remember correctly, the same sensor as the D7000, which is pretty darn good.</p>

<p>Honestly, you can try a grad ND, but with something as uneven as a mountain skyline, not sure how well it would work. Try to braket and blend, either by hand, HDR, or exposure fusion.</p>

[lilly_w]

<p>A <em>graduated</em> ND filter is the Rx for what you've described, short of taking multiple images and combining them with an HDR program. A standard ND filter will reduce the light intensity across the entire image. You will be no further ahead with such a filter. Among other things these are often used to reduce shutter speeds for obtaining a silky-looking waterfall.</p>

<p>A thread-mounted grad ND is problematic in that the 'break' or transition between the clear glass and light-reducing glas is smack dab in the middle of the filter and remains fixed in that location. To use it properly every one of your ridglines should be aligned with it, which is a pretty rigid restriction. Most would find that entirely unacceptable. The common solution is to utilize a rectangular graduated ND filter in a mount (Cokin P) that allows you to adjust (sliding up, down, left or right) the transition area for a particular composition. Much can be found on the subject via a P.net search.</p>

[David_Cavan]

<p>Good advice already in this thread. You do have some decisions to make, and none of the choices are perfect. As Lilly says a GND with a square bracket will work best for setup purposes, but it is a bit of a pain to get on and off the camera. A non-graduated filter is not worth much, it will just darken the whole shot. A polarizing filter will have similar impact, although it might help with the sky if the angle to the sun is close to 90 degrees. </p>

[david_henderson]

<p>Mostly I and most others recommend rectangular grad systems with a holder that allows you to position the grad line pretty precisely. But they do work best on a tripod and hand-holding with these filters is often imprecise. A screw-in all-over ND is a waste of money for your problem. Darkening the sky in post can work, but only if you have managed to capture some detail- too much over-exposure and it just makes everything look grey and artificial- you're effectively painting a sky. Lightroom has a nice virtual grad filter that you apply after and which works very well- just so long as you have some real sky info to darken. I wouldn't rely on any multiple image solution without a tripod, and I'm guessing thats out of the question. So most of the usual "best" solutions aren't going to help you.</p>

<p>Alternatively there are screw in grad filters. They aren't popular because they are no-where near as flexible as the rectangular ones in that while you can tilt the grad-line you can't move it up and down. That said I'd guess that most of the people who knock them haven't used one, and criticise based on their obvious inflexibility rather than experience. I used to use one of these for years with a Mamiya rangefinder, hand-held, with slide film and their gradation is very gentle so that you won't get an obvious line across your pictures. I tried it since nothing else worked. They don't subtract more than two stops of light at the top and next to nothing in the middle but they often for me made the difference between getting some usable detail in the sky or none. I'm thinking that one of these will often be enough to get you sufficient detail for darkening in post to have a useful start point- so a combination approach -a bit from the filter, a bit from post-processing.</p>

 

[sarah_briggs]

<p>Barry, great idea! This is an unedited, super cropped image (just so you know what I'm talking about) of what is happening. I know, I know...I'm pointing my camera straight toward the light, but these are the hazards of climbing in Colorado. You have to start at day break so you can be sure to summit before noon. </p>

<p>Also, I've edited my poor fingers off...nothing is getting rid of that saturation. HDR seems to work sometimes but I have to spend hours trying to find the perfect balance of diminishing the saturation and keeping the photo looking as natural as possible (not a big fan of the super HDR'ed look). </p><div></div>

[SCL]

<p>A NDGrad filter would certainly help in this situation...not perfect, but an improvement.</p>

[SCL]

<p>A NDGrad filter would certainly help in this situation...not perfect, but an improvement. If you have PS you could also use the highlight/shadow tool, or manipulate the curves in most programs.</p>

[mendel_leisk]

<p>I got rectangular GND's with a holder, and a simple screw-on filter style, the 0.6 B+W. I use the latter much more, because it's simple and portable. I know it's not as effective or flexible, but the gradation is very gradual, and it's only the top third that's significantly darkened. It rotates similar to a polarizer.</p>

[cjk]

<p>Sarah: <br>

Is something like this what you are looking for? <br>

About 30 sec in Lightroom. Starting with a NEF raw file would allow for more flexibility. <br>

Cesar</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[jwallphoto]

<p>"...spend hours trying to find the perfect balance of diminishing the saturation..."<br>

Sarah, this is an exposure problem, not a saturation problem, so if you were playing with saturation tools to get something more like what Cesar came up with, you were simply using the wrong tools. </p>

[John Crowe]

<p>I tried the GND filters from Cokin and they will soften your images substantially. As illustrated above there are many ways to balance the exposure, as best as possible, in post processing. I use the GND filter in the CS4 Camera Raw converter a lot. You're still limited by a straight line, but you have many options for placement and strength as well as using multiple filters on one image. You have to be careful that you are not overcompensating the exposure too much as you can bring out noise in deep shadows.</p>

<p>Your camera is more than capable of excellent photography. Ansel Adams did a lot of post processing in the darkroom via dodging/burning/filtration (yes the film darkroom is where these terms come from) on his enlarger to get his images the way they are. Rendering lanscape exposures the way you want is as much about what you do after you take the picture, as what you do while taking the picture. </p>

[scott_murphy5]

<p>First off, Ansel Adams usually went out <em>ALONE</em>, not with an entourage as you incorrectly asserted. As he got older, occasionally John Sexton used to accompany him.<br>

<br /> A straight ND filter won't help you at all here, because it reduces light across the entire frame. What I recommend you get is a holder similar to what Cokin offers and a graduated ND filter. You attach the holder to the front of your lens like any filter and then slide the filter in place in the holder. You can move it within the holder to achieve the effect you want. Together the two weigh a few ounces. Also, I would recommend you either get a backpack style camera bag or just lug a regular camera bag with you when you hike. The backpack types come in handy because they will distribute the weight of the gear evenly.</p>

[gregallanphotography]

<p>Sarah, I know i'm late to the party and I don't have anything really to add in terms of the filters side of the discussion all my suggestions have already been said but what did you mean by " that awful ridge line saturation/reflection."? Were you referring to the very saturated blue that is apparent in the rock at the rock sky transition? Has anyone addressed this in the discussion? I didn't notice any mention of it. Also, as it has been months since the majority of the posts, what did you end up using in terms of filters or post processing techniques?</p>