Diagnose Please (Bronica S2 Experts)

[bob_dobalina1]

<p>Hi all,<br>

I picked up this Bronica S2 at an estate sale and was curious if I could get a diagnosis. I haven't shot any film with it, BTW. Here are the photos:</p>

<p><a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=2q36gyh" target="_blank"><img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/2q36gyh.jpg" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic" border="0" /></a><br>

<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=125gdxy" target="_blank"><img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/125gdxy.jpg" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic" border="0" /></a><br>

First off, what are the circular rings/fogging that show up on the focusing screen? Is this damage? Secondly, is the shutter stuck in this position or does it only open up this much? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!</p>

[toni_nikkanen]

<p>I don't know what you mean about the shutter, but I can tell you that normally the shutter can only be cocked when there is a camera back with film connected to the camera. There might be a workaround to cock the shutter (for testing purposes) without film too.<br>

About the focusing screen... looks to be in bad shape, hard to say what happened to it.. but that is not the world's end, the screen is easy enough to change and you should do it anyway, the replacement screens are much better than the original one. Get one from Rick Oleson or buy a Kiev-60 screen, both are around $30 I believe.</p>

 

[bob_dobalina1]

<p>Thanks Toni!</p>

[steve_mareno1]

<p>Once you get it working, you're gonna just love the results of the lens on that camera (I assume it's the usual Nikkor lens from what I see in your photos). They are really, really good. Rolleiflex Planar good, at least.</p>

<p>The shutters are also handy for scaring the cat (or the neighbors!) KA WAP!</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>Reading the camera manual at:<br>

http://www.cameramanuals.org/booklets/bronica_s2&c_booklet.pdf<br>

and information at:<br>

http://imagesandcameras.com/zenza-bronica-s2-slr-camera-manual/</p>

<p>we see that the shutter has a lock that can be used with the T setting. The shutter may be locked open on T or B. T= time, first trip of a cocked shutter opens the shutter, second trip without recocking closes the shutter. The shutter can be closed by turning the shutter speed dial to another speed setting and may be required on some cameras/shutters. B=bulb-cocked shutter opens with the trip of the shutter release lever and stays open as long as the the trip lever is held in the trip position. Shutter closes as soon as the trip lever is released.</p>

<p>Focusing screen: probably dirty from sitting on display. Many focus screens incorporate a fresnel. The rings of the fresnel become more pronounced as contaminates accumulate on the screen.<br>

Any focusing screen, ground glass, or fresnel of any camera can be cleaned by washing it in warm soapy water, rinsing, and drying. I use Dawn dish detergent but any brand is suitable. Handle the screen by the edges only. Focusing screens and fresnels are made of plastic and are easily scratched. Rub the focusing screen, fresnel, or ground glass gently with your finger tips only. On fresnels and focusing screens rub the ribbed side in the direction of the ribs only, never across them. Do a final rinse in a weak Photoflo solution and stand on edge to air dry or gently dry with a clean lint free cloth.</p>

[toni_nikkanen]

<p>I agree, that standard Nikkor-P 75mm lens is what got me hooked on Bronicas in the first place. It's deadly sharp even shot fully open.</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>Warning! Don't judge the results from that camera by handheld snapshots. You <strong>will </strong>get camera shake if you use it handheld.</p>

<p>I remember a friend of mine proudly showing the results from his brand new S2 back in 1960something. They were all ruined by camera shake, but he couldn't see it because he was so proud of his new toy. See if there's a decent tripod to go with the camera.</p>

[toni_nikkanen]

<p>I wouldn't be so sure. Considering how much noise the camera makes when firing, it doesn't actually shake so much. Thanks to the innovative splitting mirror and the fact that the shutter travels vertically, sharp pictures are indeed possible hand-held.</p>

<p>I used to have a Pentax 6x7 and THAT camera did cause some real shake hand-held.</p>

 

[c_watson1]

<p>"<em>Thanks to the innovative splitting mirror and the fact that the shutter travels vertically, sharp pictures are indeed possible hand-held.</em>"</p>

<p>Malarkey. The S/S2/S2a all had a large solid mirror. The later EC/EC-TL had the wonky split mirror and an electronic shutter train. Replacement of the focus screen isn't a simple swap since they're precisely shimmed and exact focus isn't guaranteed with just a new screen. Tear it down an you'll see what I mean, If you got it cheap and you're in the States, I'd contact Koh's or Frank Marshman at Camera Wiz for a proper fix/CLA. They're complicated mechanical relics that don't take kindly to amateur repair. I got an S+75/2.8 Nikkor cheap around 2004. Used it for 4 years when the gears stripped, pitched it, kept the the lens and got a NOS SQ-B kit and never looked back.</p>

<p>Sharp handheld pix with an old Bronica are easy provided you keep shutter speeds above 1/60.</p>

<p>BTW, most of the Pentax 6x7's fabled "screen door slam" mirror noise was post exposure. MLU cut vibration to a minimum--that was the point.</p>

[toni_nikkanen]

<p>About the Pentax 6x7 - I had the "with Mirror-Up Device" version and that feature was overrated. At least in my use, camera shake was clearly caused by the shutter - whenever my pictures were shaken, they were shaken in a purely horizontal direction - the "flagpoles get doubled" effect. The poor mirror was blamed for crimes it didn't commit.<br>

Some people see it in a completely opposite way, which leads me to think - could my shutter have been out of tune and moving too forcefully? Or then everyone else on the Internet is just wrong ;)</p>

<p>The Bronica new screen isn't really such a big deal - the Kiev-88 screen (I mistakenly said Kiev-60 before) is a very near fit - please see for example http://www.photo.net/medium-format-photography-forum/0013D0?start=10 <br>

If it's without adjustments spot on at close range and very slightly off at infinity, it's good enough for me. I can focus to infinity without looking at the screen anyway :)</p>

 

[djolk]

<p>I know with my SQ-a you can fire the shutter with no back it you use the mirror lock up.</p>

[dave_thomas8]

<p>Hmmm, actually with the SQ-A I've always understood you operate the multi-exposure lever to fire the shutter without a back - that's what I do. That apparently removes the 'film wound' state from the magic interlock. The official manual is pretty vague about the possibility of 'dry firing.'</p>

[neil_poulsen8]

<p>I don't know that much about camera shake for the Bronica S2 series. But, the sync is around 1/40th of a second. That means it takes that amount of time for each half of the shutter to cross the format. I can see where handheld images might have a problem due to the slow sync speed.</p>

<p>I have an S2a and an S2. I really like the camera and its available focal lengths. I've taken some very nice photos with this camera. I ALWAYS use it on a good tripod. For me, it's more of a fine art tool. I might add, I've never had a mechanical problem with the S2a. The S2 I picked up inexpensively to obtain accessories with which it was sold. So, I haven't used the S2 much.</p>

[jeff_livacich]

<p>Correct about engaging the multiple exposure allowing dry fire.</p>

[jeff_livacich]

<p>Toni-<br /> A review of the Pentax 67II, which shows results of the shutter-induced shake, same as what you described:</p>

<p>http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/pentax67ii.shtml</p>

<p>The cure, according to the article, is a sturdier tripod.</p>

[conrad_smith]

<p>The foam ground glass seating often needs replacement on Bronica S and EC series cameras. If focus is off, deteriorated foam is the likely culprit. Koh's Camera (and probably others) can correct this problem.</p>

[toni_nikkanen]

<p>Jeff, yes, looks very familiar :) One of the main reasons I eventually moved from Pentax to Bronica. I have nothing against tripods, but every time I can get a good photo without a tripod, I would rather go without. And with the Bronica, there is nothing to complain about in that department. And the Nikkor glasses are wonderful - I've since then managed to get a Nikkor-H.C 75/2.8 for 12,50 euro, a real STEAL. (Somebody on eBay was selling it as a Nikon F mount lens, but I recognized it from the pictures :)</p>

<p> </p>